Freethought & Rationalism Archive

PostMortem · 01-27-2007, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mythra

Wouldn't "animal remains" indicate that the animal died there? If there were animal remains on Noah's ark, wouldn't that particular specie of animal now be extinct?

OH!! Very good point! I missed that.

Malachi151 · 01-27-2007, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mythra

I watched it again, and the apologist slips up.

He says that they took core samples from this thing on Mt. Ararat, and found animal remains inside. Although I know this is utter b.s. -

Wouldn't "animal remains" indicate that the animal died there? If there were animal remains on Noah's ark, wouldn't that particular specie of animal now be extinct?

Actually, according to the story, Noah takes 7 PAIRS of all the "clean" animals, and then sacrifices some from each kind them at the end of the adventure in the largest animal sacrifice ever.

Of course, its all line for line from the Epic of Gilgamesh...

Gooch's dad · 01-27-2007, 03:18 PM

Hard to believe that Ron Wyatt left a group of believers after he died, considering how he was famous for swindling other Christian churches.

Who was it here that I was debating with, about the "chariot wheels" that turned out to be ordinary handwheels off of modern boats? That was just hilarious. I remember that he was a big Wyatt fan.

As for the "animal remains" found when they drilled for "core samples"--those are the remains of the last pair of extinct dinosaurs, of course! They made it to the Ark, made the whole journey, but they died when they got off the boat. Pining for the fjords, I imagine.

Vagabonder · 01-27-2007, 04:29 PM

Is this "that they don't know 25% of the words in Ancient Hebrew, that there were no numbers, that the word God and the word love have the same numeric value" factual?

p.s. I saw the link to this George Carlin video when at YouTube. If you haven't seen it, check it out.

aa5874 · 01-27-2007, 05:38 PM

I think that the story of the flood may have been very believeable and plausible.

I live in the caribbean, and if some God told me to collect all the animals in the world, before I knew anything about all those other continents and species of animals,, I would collect, two donkeys, two horses, two sheep, two goats, two dogs, a cock and a hen, two cats, two cows, two pigs, and I would be ready to sail.

That's all the animals in my world. I would not put rats on board, they may cause my boat to sink!

gregor · 01-27-2007, 08:29 PM

mal
The J text called for 7 pairs
The P text called for 2 pairs

The OT just cobbles them together

JoyJuice · 01-28-2007, 02:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mythra

I watched it again, and the apologist slips up.

He says that they took core samples from this thing on Mt. Ararat, and found animal remains inside. Although I know this is utter b.s. -

Wouldn't "animal remains" indicate that the animal died there? If there were animal remains on Noah's ark, wouldn't that particular specie of animal now be extinct?

Wait a minute, is the same anomaly on Mt Ararat that has been debated as to whether it is or isn't a boat?

They have now determined it is a boat and some have been inside of it?

I haven't heard that before?

John Kesler · 01-28-2007, 05:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gregor

mal
The J text called for 7 pairs
The P text called for 2 pairs

Actually, the "P text" requires one pair of each animal, whether clean or unclean, while the "J text" requires seven pairs of clean animals and birds and one pair of unclean animals:

Quote:

"P text" (Genesis 6:19-20; 7:8-9, 15)
19 And of every living thing, of all flesh, you shall bring two of every kind into the ark, to keep them alive with you; they shall be male and female. 20 Of the birds according to their kinds, and of the animals according to their kinds, of every creeping thing of the ground according to its kind, two of every kind shall come in to you, to keep them alive.

8 Of clean animals, and of animals that are not clean, and of birds, and of everything that creeps on the ground, 9 two and two, male and female, went into the ark with Noah, as God had commanded Noah.
15 They went into the ark with Noah, two and two of all flesh in which there was the breath of life.

Quote:

"J text" (Genesis 7:2-3)
2 Take with you seven pairs of all clean animals, the male and its mate; and a pair of the animals that are not clean, the male and its mate; 3 and seven pairs of the birds of the air also, male and female, to keep their kind alive on the face of all the earth.

Malachi151 · 01-28-2007, 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gregor

mal
The J text called for 7 pairs
The P text called for 2 pairs

The OT just cobbles them together

Of course, but since the ending has Noah doing a sacrifice, one has to go with the 7 pairs bit, or how else sacrifices would just ruin the whole thing.

Most literalists like to stick to the 2 of a kind, because they want a minimize the # of animals on the boat to make it more plausible.

aa5874 · 01-28-2007, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malachi151

Of course, but since the ending has Noah doing a sacrifice, one has to go with the 7 pairs bit, or how else sacrifices would just ruin the whole thing.

Most literalists like to stick to the 2 of a kind, because they want a minimize the # of animals on the boat to make it more plausible.

I don't understand, 7 pairs make the sacrifice plausible and 2 of a kind make the boat size plausible, so one has to go with the former. That doesn't make sense if the story is just a fairy tale, fiction cannot be harmonised.

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01-27-2007, 03:18 PM	#13
Gooch's dad Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Madison WI USA Posts: 3,508	Hard to believe that Ron Wyatt left a group of believers after he died, considering how he was famous for swindling other Christian churches. Who was it here that I was debating with, about the "chariot wheels" that turned out to be ordinary handwheels off of modern boats? That was just hilarious. I remember that he was a big Wyatt fan. As for the "animal remains" found when they drilled for "core samples"--those are the remains of the last pair of extinct dinosaurs, of course! They made it to the Ark, made the whole journey, but they died when they got off the boat. Pining for the fjords, I imagine.

01-27-2007, 04:29 PM	#14
Vagabonder Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 585	Is this "that they don't know 25% of the words in Ancient Hebrew, that there were no numbers, that the word God and the word love have the same numeric value" factual? p.s. I saw the link to this George Carlin video when at YouTube. If you haven't seen it, check it out.

01-27-2007, 05:38 PM	#15
aa5874 Contributor Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: the fringe of the caribbean Posts: 18,988	I think that the story of the flood may have been very believeable and plausible. I live in the caribbean, and if some God told me to collect all the animals in the world, before I knew anything about all those other continents and species of animals,, I would collect, two donkeys, two horses, two sheep, two goats, two dogs, a cock and a hen, two cats, two cows, two pigs, and I would be ready to sail. That's all the animals in my world. I would not put rats on board, they may cause my boat to sink!

01-27-2007, 08:29 PM	#16
gregor Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Texas Posts: 932	mal The J text called for 7 pairs The P text called for 2 pairs The OT just cobbles them together

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