Chris Weimer

Because you lack context to your interpretation? You assume that Yahweh is everyone's God. That isn't so. The scriptures are pretty clear that Israel is the chosen land, the Hebrews are the chosen people. So when Yahweh says that he is their God, he isn't saying that other cultures have their own gods, but that other cultures have false gods. The prophets showed that the "gods" of the Philistines and other cultures were false gods. Their gods couldn't do anything. Baal couldn't light a fire. But Elijah had the alter soaked, and called upon Yahweh to light the alter, and it burst aflame.

Why is it for you more likely that the author of Chronicles (one of the last books to be canonized, written much, much later than the Torah, and generally thought to be within the period historically where the Judaeans were clearly a majority monotheistic) was henotheistic or polytheistic rather than showing that belief in other gods is foolish, because they don't have any power...because they don't exist?

Joan of Bark

No I don't. YHWH was a tribal god of the Hebrews only (although there is one passage in the Torah that implies he MAY have been the god of others. I admit there is evidence on both sides).

Agreed.

Does He use a term like "false gods" anywhere? Or does He say "gods you haven't known?" as in the following passage (in which He makes a prediction about what will be said about the Hebrews if they don't keep His commands) "And they went and served other gods and bowed to them, gods whom they hadn't known and He hadn't allocated to them." Deut. 29:25

When did the prophets make these claims? I admitted that the Hebrews became monotheistic, but not in the Torah.

Please provide support for this passage. I'm not arguing against it, I just want the citation.

Again, because he has Solomon proclaim that "our God is greater than all other gods", instead of the far more rational "our God is great" or "our God is the only one". If other gods are false, why even mention them? If the Israelites were at that time monotheistic, that statement would be totally nonsensical to his people. The comparison is meaningless.

Jack the Bodiless

It is pretty obvious that the author of Exodus believed in the existence of the Egyptian gods. There is a "contest of powers" between YHWH and the Egyptian deities, in which the Egyptian priests reproduce the "sticks to snakes" miracle and several of the Plagues!

Apologists sometimes try to argue that the Egyptian priests were "sorcerers" (somehow able to work miracles without divine assistance), or that the actual magic was provided by "demons". But YHWH attacks the Egyptian deities personally in Exodus 12:12 and Numbers 33:4 (while offering a reprieve to rival deities in 1 Samuel 6:5).

Joan of Bark

Hey, those are great passages, Jack. I don't know how I missed them.

angelo

Because Yahweh was a dessert god just like the gods mentioned; in other words; a man made god, just like the rest of them.

angelo

Exodus never happened. There is not a shred of evidence from archeology, or for that matter from Egyptian records of any exodus of Hebrews. In fact the existence of Moses is today in strong doubt. There may have been a small group of people to leave Egypt, with no concern to the Egyptians whatsoever. Not the big deal the Jews made of the whole affair.

Clivedurdle

I would love to see a clear explanation of what monotheism actually is. I do see people claiming to worship one god, but please show me anyone anywhere who did not and does not believe in other gods angels cherubim demons djinn saints etc etc. (lesser gods).

I also see from the possibly sixteenth century onwards (does it go back to Plato or Zarathustra?) a deist concept of a starter motor god, but did Judaism or Xianity or Islam ever use those ideas?

These ideas probably have been mixed and matched over the centuries and I see now the huge majority of the planet being various forms of polytheists - despite the claims of Judaism, Xianity and Islam - a few deist god believers with a scientific background and growing numbers of materialists.

The vast majority are pagan, a significant number are imperialist pagans with an all powerful god, but they all have a huge panoply of gods and supernatural hangers on.

(Is the Trinity a heavenly triumvirate?)

John Kesler

Now that I have more time, I would like to show, with appeal to scholarly sources and the biblical text, that Israel was not always monotheistic (as expressed in passages like Isaiah 44:6, Deuteronomy 32:39, and Isaiah 45:5), and previously took for granted the existence of other gods.

Deuteronomy 32:8-9 reads in the NRSV:

We know from the Ugaritic (Ras Shamra) tablets that the Canaanite god El fathered 70 gods; this background informs about Deuteronomy 32:8-9. Mark S. Smith writes on page 49 of The Origins of Biblical Monotheism, my emphasis:

Here is Smith's comment on Psalm 82, pp 155-156 of the same book, again my emphasis:

Richard Elliott Friedman, in Commentary on the Torah, page 667-668, paperback edition, concurs. He writes regarding Deuteronomy 32:8:

John Day, in The Anchor Bible Dictionary entry "Canaan, Religion of," Volume 1, page 835, my emphasis:

This new understanding, that angels, rather than gods rule the nations, finds expression in Sirach 17:17 and Daniel 10:

The belief that country had a corresponding god is found in several places in the OT.

The text is somewhat confused, because Chemosh was actually the god of the Moabites, and Milcom was the god of the Ammonites (see 1 Kings 11:5, 33), but the point remains, and the belief that what transpired with the gods in heaven impacted earthly events was also believed by other ANE inhabitants, including the Moabites, as evidenced by the Moabite Stone, my emphasis:

Compare the language used by Jeremiah in his oracle against Moab:

Jeremiah 48:1a, 7:

Here is the oracle against Ammon, from Jeremiah 49:1:

The prophet Micah's vision of the future allowed for each nation to retain its non-Israelite identity and worship:

I hope that this post has proven useful.

Well

Evidently along with God, other gods do exist.


God wants us to live, charitably happy in His sense. In so doing, we actually praise... Him - kinda a *win-win* deal. so a good thing to jealously want to continue... eh?

Annie