countjulian

Ya. Irenaeus was the first one.

As the rather comical article at Rotten, here, http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/religion/popes/linus/ , points out, that little paragraph is the entire shaky basis (besides the credulous Jesus yarn) of the Pope's authority.

Might want to read some other stuff on there, Rotten's got some good articles (check out there article linking the Assassins to Al Quada- it's a hoot and holler ).

Afghan

Thanks.

Clivedurdle

Umm

If we assume a heavenly Christ and death and resurrection, and the apostles are the twelve minor prophets, how come this still all makes sense?

mikem

EPISKOPOS - Bishop in Phillippians 1:1 refers to the elders or overseers of the church. The same word occurs in Acts 20 v 28, from where it is clear that Paul is addressing as episkopos the same group that earlier at verse 17 are described as elders.

DIAKONOS - Can be translated as deacon or preferably minister. Like elders, these people were appointed by laying on of hands, and could be either male or female. They were probably general administrators within the early church. The office seems to go back to Acts 6, in which you find how it came about that this office was introduced.

They were not so much ranks as offices or functions, and certainly do not at this stage include all the priveleges and authority that later came to be invested in these functions. It would appear that wherever Paul established a church, he would leave people in charge, who shared his views, whose role it was to be overseers. This was a necessary precaution, given the danger of someone else coming in with a "different gospel".

There is a lot of debate about what constitutes "apostolic succession", and whether there really was such a thing historically, or whether it was created later to legitimise the catholic church. Perhaps more on that some other time.

Thre is nothing in the use of these words to indicate that the writings of Paul were from a later period. The functions described by Paul evolved as time went on, and what were originally meant to be ministries for the benefit of the church eventually became priveleges to be sought after.

GakuseiDon

It's interesting that you see it as still making sense assuming a heavenly Christ. It perhaps shows that we should be careful in interpreting any phrase that doesn't clearly place the subject on earth as indicating a 'heavenly' setting. Clement also says:

For from him have sprung the priests and all the Levites who minister at the altar of God. From him also [was descended] our Lord Jesus Christ according to the flesh. From him [arose] kings, princes, and rulers of the race of Judah.

Clivedurdle

Have you brought up another question, was Clement actually Christian? The above feels very Jewish, what are the brackets around "was descended" and "arose"? What was the thinking behind the relationships? What is sprung? Is it a description of something like a tree?