Freethought & Rationalism Archive

4 billion · 07-14-2006, 02:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seebs

How about you get joy and fulfillment if you live the way Jesus said, and if there's an afterlife, hey, cool.

cor16:22 If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha.(cursed)

It is not quite as simple as just living the way jeezus says, the big Fairy tale insists that all nonbelievers be destroyed.

Dean Anderson · 07-14-2006, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seebs

Can you find me an earlier teaching to love one's enemy? Not just treat them okay; actually love them.

I've not yet found one.

The Stoic school of philosophy (that Christianity also inherits so much else from, such as the concept of the "Logos") had the concept of "Universal Brotherhood" where all humanity has a spark of the divine and thus the "Love of oneself" (Oikeiosis) should be extended to all - "both master and slave" "both Persian and Greek".

When you bear in mind that the Persians were the enemy of Greece, this is a pretty explicit "Love thine enemy" philosophy.

I'm trying to track down an exact first-hand quote for this from a Stoic Philosopher...

seebs · 07-14-2006, 02:40 AM

Huh! I think you may be right in that.

Trivia point: My non-theistic choice of philosophies, back in the day, was "Stoic".

I am incorrigible.

AthenaAwakened · 07-14-2006, 02:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merzbow42

I think the thing that must get Christians the most is that there are 1 billion Hindus, 1 billion Muslims, and 1 billion Buddhists and unreligious who are living happy, satisfying lives (and have been doing so for millenia) while having absolutely nothing to do with their Bible, their Jesus, and their God. Just thinking about this makes it so clear how stunningly irrelevant the fantasy of a utopian/dystopian afterlife really is.

If the only thing you can hold over the heads of those you wish to 'save' is the threat of being brought back from the dead and then imprisoned for eternity, but we'll have to take your word for it because you have no evidence, you're really grasping at straws.

When I was believer, that never bothered me (but then again I subscribed to a liberal christianity)

Peace

Dryhad · 07-14-2006, 02:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4 billion

Muslims and Christians are the same religion

Yeah, like catholics and protestants. I'm sure all the semetic religions agree that the other ways of following their god are just as valid as theirs

.

David B · 07-14-2006, 02:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seebs

....

How about you get joy and fulfillment if you live the way Jesus said, and if there's an afterlife, hey, cool.

Don't you think that there is an element of cherry picking if you are guided by what Jesus is alleged to have said in the beatitudes?

What about all the stuff about hating family?

David B

WishboneDawn · 07-14-2006, 03:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merzbow42

I think the thing that must get Christians the most is that there are 1 billion Hindus, 1 billion Muslims, and 1 billion Buddhists and unreligious who are living happy, satisfying lives (and have been doing so for millenia) while having absolutely nothing to do with their Bible, their Jesus, and their God. Just thinking about this makes it so clear how stunningly irrelevant the fantasy of a utopian/dystopian afterlife really is.

If the only thing you can hold over the heads of those you wish to 'save' is the threat of being brought back from the dead and then imprisoned for eternity, but we'll have to take your word for it because you have no evidence, you're really grasping at straws.

I think it's fantastic that people have found other paths that make them happy. I'm no evangelical out to convert the world and think any kind of preccupation with the next world is a mistake anyway. Too many things to do in the here and now.

seebs · 07-14-2006, 03:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David B

Don't you think that there is an element of cherry picking if you are guided by what Jesus is alleged to have said in the beatitudes?

Not really. I mean, they're sort of canonical.

Quote:

What about all the stuff about hating family?

If you meet the Buddha in the road, slay him!

Dean Anderson · 07-14-2006, 03:41 AM

Actually, this raises an interesting point (that might be worth a thread to itself).

To what extent can the Gospel authors be considered to be "cherry picking"?

After all, they each independently chose which stories about Jesus and sayings of Jesus to include. Unless we go for the assumption that each included every story they knew (which is, of course, incompatible with the tradition that the authors were the actual apostles whose names they have been given) then each of them has acted as divine editor and selected which stories/sayings of Jesus to include and not include.

I wonder how much material we simply don't have today because none of them decided to include it (because it didn't fit nicely with their theology)...?

Dryhad · 07-14-2006, 03:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pervy

I wonder how much material we simply don't have today because none of them decided to include it (because it didn't fit nicely with their theology)...?

Or even for that matter for more innocent reasons such as not thinking it important when it actually might have been.

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07-14-2006, 02:40 AM	#13
seebs Contributor Join Date: May 2002 Location: Saint Paul, MN Posts: 24,524	Huh! I think you may be right in that. Trivia point: My non-theistic choice of philosophies, back in the day, was "Stoic". I am incorrigible.

07-14-2006, 03:41 AM	#19
Dean Anderson Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Brighton, England Posts: 6,947	Actually, this raises an interesting point (that might be worth a thread to itself). To what extent can the Gospel authors be considered to be "cherry picking"? After all, they each independently chose which stories about Jesus and sayings of Jesus to include. Unless we go for the assumption that each included every story they knew (which is, of course, incompatible with the tradition that the authors were the actual apostles whose names they have been given) then each of them has acted as divine editor and selected which stories/sayings of Jesus to include and not include. I wonder how much material we simply don't have today because none of them decided to include it (because it didn't fit nicely with their theology)...?

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