Jayhawker Soule

I suspect that conservative Jewish/Christian opponents of the Documentary Hypothesis (i.e., most of them) will be surprised at the suggestion that Friedman reflects their views.

Joan of Bark

This explanation sounds suspiciously like the one Christians use to excuse Jesus when he commands people to hate their family (Luke 14:26). I'm not buying it (at least not in the OT). In Joshua, 'other' gods are also referred to as 'foreign' gods (eg Joshua 24:20). Since when were family, friends and work 'foreign'?

Loomis

Just curious.

We are treating this subject as though the “ancient Israelites� were categorically monotheistic, polytheistic, or (trendy new word on the block) henotheistic. - Like it is our mission to find out which category they actually fall into – but there can be only one.

Or perhaps that all of them used to believe one thing and then they all suddenly changed at once and began believing something else.

Has it occurred to anyone here that the various authors of the Torah may not have shared the same views on this subject?

For example, if one author said that Yahweh was the son of the Most High god, and another author said that Yahweh simply WAS the Most High god, then why do WE have to reconcile this?

What’s wrong with treating the issue at face value?

What’s wrong with the hypothesis that says the authors did not share a common view?

Why are WE trying to invent a unified ancient Israel if one does not appear to exist?

Loomis

Duh … thanks. No kidding. I’ve been looking for Friedman's comments on Deuteronomy 32:8-9. So that’s where they are. I guess I need to buy that book!

I read The Bible with Sources Revealed and can’t understand why he picked “children of Israel� over “sons of El.�

What is honest or well informed about that?

- Presupposes a unified belief system.

I agree with Lloyd Barre – I think a new paradigm is in order. There was no unified ancient Israel.

Loomis

IMO yes. It looks like he's overlooked a few things to me.

Loomis

That seems awfully conservative to me. If we were to sort the OT into three categories {polytheistic, neutral/undetermined, and monotheistic} which group would be the least popular?

Jayhawker Soule

No, it presupposes that the 13th century BCE West Semitic peoples were superstitious, that nascent Israel was influenced by the same mythology as its neighbors, and that the resulting religion was syncretic, though likely possessing North/South differences.