Freethought & Rationalism Archive

ScumDog · 10-23-2003, 05:00 PM

I was having a good talk with a couple of friends, about Noah's Flood, and later riding home on the bus I thought of something - if someone believes in the 3,000-5,000-year-old world and Noah's Flood that caused the world's erosion, how does one explain the massive erosion on Mars? It would've been a much greater flood the same amount of time ago, where it is extremely drier than Earth. No mention of it in the bible, and it doesn't make sense for there to be a flood on Mars if we're God's children and no mention of life on other planets at all in the bible. This seems like a huge burden of explanation for the YECs. Any explanations?

beastmaster · 10-23-2003, 05:44 PM

I'm not sure, but isn't there still some controversy over whether or not Mars ever had liquid water? Aren't the Martian ice caps made of dry ice (i.e., frozen carbon dioxide), not water? This might be good for S&S.

ScumDog · 10-23-2003, 07:11 PM

Here's a good article about water on Mars;
http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2001/ast05jan_1.htm

beastmaster · 10-23-2003, 07:20 PM

That article is from 2001. Here's one from 2003 that suggests that the gullies are caused by melting snow, not floods:

Quote:

The gullies were created by trickling water from melting snow packs, not underground springs or pressurized flows, as had been previously suggested, argues Philip Christensen, a professor at Arizona State University and the principal investigator for Odyssey's camera system. The water melts and could flow beneath snow packs where it is sheltered from rapid evaporation in the planet's thin atmosphere, Christensen explains in the Feb. 19th electronic issue of Nature.

...

Eroded gullies on crater walls and cliff sides were first observed in images taken by Mars Global Surveyor in 2000. There have been other scientific theories put forward to explain the gullies, including seeps of ground water, pressurized flows of ground water (or carbon dioxide), and mudflows caused by collapsing permafrost deposits, but no explanation to date has been universally accepted.

I'm no expert, but it looks like the science isn't settled yet. Again, I suggest S&S for some better answers.

Rhaedas · 10-23-2003, 07:28 PM

It's an older article, but water may not be the issue at all. Here's one of the alternate theories (I don't know how valid it still is).

Has Mars Always Been Dry?

Quote:

There may have been far less water on Mars in the past than most observers have assumed to date. The supposed ancient river channels may have been formed by katabatic winds carrying sand and dust over aeons, enhanced by flows of even purer carbon dioxide gas released when the dry ice permafrost warms up each year or occasionally when meteorites strike. If so, liquid water may never have been present on Mars, and the planet may always have been lifeless.

As beastmaster said, the jury is still out.

ScumDog · 10-23-2003, 07:32 PM

Well, regardless, the question of how the erosion came to be in a few thousand years stands.

beastmaster · 10-23-2003, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ScumDog
Well, regardless, the question of how the erosion came to be in a few thousand years stands.

According to the article I linked, the gullies are "young." Doesn't specify how "young," though ...

In any event, the fundies will just say god created Mars with the gullies already on it in order to show his glory.

Or Satan put them there to confuse us.

ScumDog · 10-23-2003, 07:41 PM

Gullies don't make up the entire erosion scene of Mars, do they? Seems highly unlikely, but then again..

Rhaedas · 10-23-2003, 07:45 PM

Well, back to the OP, whether a YEC can compare Mars' flooding (or whatever it is) to the proposed flood of Noah...I don't think they'd even touch it, since it flies directly in the face of much of the biblical description of the universe. How can they look at Mars as another planet, since it's suspended from the firmament of the earth?

Besides, if they can't accept the evidence right here on earth, why would they be convinced of extraterrestrial evidence?

Celsus · 10-24-2003, 06:08 AM

Off to E/C.

Joel

10-23-2003, 05:00 PM	#1
ScumDog Regular Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Florida Posts: 137	Noah's Flood Inquiry I was having a good talk with a couple of friends, about Noah's Flood, and later riding home on the bus I thought of something - if someone believes in the 3,000-5,000-year-old world and Noah's Flood that caused the world's erosion, how does one explain the massive erosion on Mars? It would've been a much greater flood the same amount of time ago, where it is extremely drier than Earth. No mention of it in the bible, and it doesn't make sense for there to be a flood on Mars if we're God's children and no mention of life on other planets at all in the bible. This seems like a huge burden of explanation for the YECs. Any explanations?

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10-23-2003, 05:44 PM	#2
beastmaster Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Madrid / I am a: Lifelong atheist Posts: 885	I'm not sure, but isn't there still some controversy over whether or not Mars ever had liquid water? Aren't the Martian ice caps made of dry ice (i.e., frozen carbon dioxide), not water? This might be good for S&S.

10-23-2003, 07:11 PM	#3
ScumDog Regular Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Florida Posts: 137	Here's a good article about water on Mars; http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2001/ast05jan_1.htm

10-23-2003, 07:32 PM	#6
ScumDog Regular Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Florida Posts: 137	Well, regardless, the question of how the erosion came to be in a few thousand years stands.

10-23-2003, 07:41 PM	#8
ScumDog Regular Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Florida Posts: 137	Gullies don't make up the entire erosion scene of Mars, do they? Seems highly unlikely, but then again..

10-23-2003, 07:45 PM	#9
Rhaedas Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: USA Posts: 3,440	Well, back to the OP, whether a YEC can compare Mars' flooding (or whatever it is) to the proposed flood of Noah...I don't think they'd even touch it, since it flies directly in the face of much of the biblical description of the universe. How can they look at Mars as another planet, since it's suspended from the firmament of the earth? Besides, if they can't accept the evidence right here on earth, why would they be convinced of extraterrestrial evidence?

10-24-2003, 06:08 AM	#10
Celsus Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Singapore Posts: 2,875	Off to E/C. Joel

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