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Old 12-07-2010, 05:02 PM   #11
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When you say, "we have no good reason to think that about Eusebius", who exactly is "WE".
The community of disinterested observers.
You represent a community?

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I just mean that from Eusebius' point of view, he was doing the right thing.
You represent Eusebius' point of view?

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Philo would have been a contemporary of the so-called Jesus and the FALSE claim by Eusebius or the author of "Church History" that there were Christians who believed in Jesus at that time may have helped or was likely to have helped to promote a most heinous lie that Jesus a man without a human father was a God who created heaven and earth and died for the sin of mankind.
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[No one drew that conclusion from what Eusebius wrote.
You know everyone's conclusion?

Well, it can be concluded that the author of "Church History" was a most heinous liar.

Philo did not mention the name Jesus Christ at all in any of his writings or that there were Jewish people who worshiped a man as a God.

Josephus who also wrote the history of the Jews did not mention any Messiah called Jesus who was worshiped as a God and in fact, Josephus and the Jews fought against the Romans expecting a Jewish Messiah at around 70 CE.

What we have as a religion based on Jesus Christ is a fraud by people who used the writings of Jews, including Philo of Alexandria, to make make false claims about the history of Jesus believers.
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Old 12-07-2010, 06:19 PM   #12
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What do you mean by Christianize here? I don't think that there is any great controvery over what Eusebius did - he tried to identify an early version of Christianity in the Theraputae described by Philo.

Eusebius clearly did not turn Philo into a Christian.
The author more or less says in his conclusion that "Eusebius Christianized Philo's De vita contemplativa (VC) for the glory of Egyptian Christianity". In this instance the book, and not the author, was "Christianized".

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There are pathological liars, who lie for no good reason, but we have no reason to think that about Eusebius. His lies and spin doctoring were for a purpose, which he thought was good.
The purpose or motive given in this instance was "for the glory Christianity", and if that is not enough, he author makes explicit references to the "TF". Eusbius Christianized Josephus's Antiquities for the glory of Christianity. Eusebius is a propagandist, and a "Christianizer" of then extant 4th century Greek literature.

What I mean by Christianize should be obvious from the above. In part (here) it relates to a deliberate perversion of the literature of antiquity for the benefit, the glory and the fabricated authenticity of [Pre-Nicaean] Christianity. It is also suggested that such a manifest task and "Program of Christianization" was of such a scale and scope, that it is unlikely to have been accomplished without imperial commission and sponsorship.
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Old 12-07-2010, 07:00 PM   #13
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.... It is also suggested that such a manifest task and "Program of Christianization" was of such a scale and scope, that it is unlikely to have been accomplished without imperial commission and sponsorship.
This is a non sequitur. There are conservative Americans who have Christianized the founding fathers of this country quite extensively - look up Parson Weems work on George Washington, or David Barton, or George Washington's Prayer Journal - none of which had any government sponsorship. All it takes is one energetic committed individual.
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Old 12-07-2010, 08:21 PM   #14
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The point here is that the authenticity of the Therapeutae is established by the parallels with the Qumran sect which was unknown before 1947
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Old 12-07-2010, 10:05 PM   #15
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Default the demographics of the Egypto-Graeco-Roman "therapeutae" (of Asclepius)

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The point here is that the authenticity of the Therapeutae is established by the parallels with the Qumran sect which was unknown before 1947
But Qumran is hardly Alexandria.

And there is a mass of evidence before our eyes on the table which has been indexed under Graeco-Roman Therapeutae, but which is being totally ignored, not only because Eusebius "Christianizes" Philo (as this author concludes), but because the writings of Philo also appear to have been Judaized (as other authors have concluded).

Thus everyone has been looking under either the "Christian Streetlight" or the "Jewish Streetlight" for the "Therapeutae" of antiquity, , unaware that this class of people are represented in massive numbers, congregated under the "Egypto-Graeco-Roman" or "Pagan Streetlight". Like Galen, personal physician to Marcus Aurelius, these pagan therapeutae were populated an extensive network of temples, libraries and shrines inside and outside the Roman empire. The ancient historical authenticity of the Therapeutae of Asclepius in the Roman Empire is established by a very great abundance of evidence.

Having no other choice, it appears that Biblical Historians must by tradition follow the signposts planted by Eusebius. If Eusebius can "Christianize" Philo's output, then he could also have purposefully suppressed and obscured reference to the Graeco-Roman therapeutae of Asclepius, for political reasons. Various works of Eusebius, such as "Against Apollonius", "Life of Constantine", exhibit marked polemic against this abominable scourge of a pagan god called Asclepius, son of Apollo, son of Zeus, and to whose "therapeutae" the disciplines of modern medical is much indebted.

Constantine, on the other hand, orders the army to utterly destroy the most ancient and highly revered Eastern Asclepian temples, libraries, hospitals, gymnasia, shrines, etc. The therapeutae (temple servants, monks, physicians, priesthood) of Asclepius, operating in the ROman Empire from c.500 BCE, sometime c.324/325 CE, became a redundant occupation. The revolutionary harmony of Nicaea was prefaced by the carnage of ancient traditions the Eastern cities.
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Old 12-08-2010, 12:53 AM   #16
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But Qumran is hardly Alexandria.
But since the Qumran sect did indeed exist in Palestine there is no reason why they couldn't have spread to Egypt. The shared 364 day solar calendar is an important argument in favor of that assumption.

For a link between Therapeutae, Essenes and Qumran, see Vermes, 'Essenes- Therapeutae-Qumran', Durham University Journal 21, 1960, 97-115

Also the connection with the Jubilees calendar was noticed by Baumgartner:

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The Therapeutae, however, may well have adhered to the Qumran-Jubilees tradition which sets the waving of the Omer on the Sunday (26/1) following the week of Passover (p. 138)
Baumgartner actually mentions that the Nestorians celebrated 50 day cycles like the Therapeutae (once again strengthening Eusebius's identification):

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Attention to the Nestorian calendar and its pentecontad structure was already drawn by Hildegard and Julius Lewy, but the data now available enable us to discern more specific points of correspondence with the sectarian calendar. The Nestorians count one shabu'a, a seven week period, from Easter to Pentecost and call it the "shabu'a of Resurrection." Pentecost, falling on Sunday, is both the end of this shabu'a and the first day of the "shabu'a of the Apostles". The latter ends with the "Feast of the Twelve Apostles" which is also the first Sunday of the shabu'a of Summer. Then follows the shabu'a of Elias.

The feasts here are associated with church traditions and no longer related to the harvest sequence. This is further indicated by a fifth pentecontad period preserved by the Nestorians, the so-called "Great Fast" beginning on the seventh Sunday before Easter and ending with Easter Sunday. The likelihood is that this is a vestige of successive seven week periods marked, as with the Therapeutae, throughout the year. Indeed it has been observed that the calendar of falahin of southern Palestine (ibid)
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Old 12-08-2010, 04:19 AM   #17
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There are pathological liars, who lie for no good reason, but we have no reason to think that about Eusebius. His lies and spin doctoring were for a purpose, which he thought was good.

If you want to just fulminate about how wretchedly and profoundly evil Eusebius must have been to have deceived you, go ahead, but don't waste my time with it. It's not going to help you understand anything.

And please do not start up with the discussion on "falsify."

a. of course, we do not know anything about Eusebius' thought, therefore, we do not have any idea what he may have regarded as good or bad. We can judge him only by his writings. Based upon what Eusebius wrote about Mani, Constantine's Tonto was, in my opinion, "profoundly evil".

b. However, if we wish to project (obviously not "retroject", a word that makes no sense to anyone who understands even the simplest concepts of neurophysiology) our own ideas onto Eusebius' presumptive pattern of thinking, then we certainly do have "reason to think" that Eusebius was a pathological liar.

"spin doctoring" and such terms of modest disapproval are inappropriate in this circumstance, with the well known torture, rape, pillaging, and murder committed in the name of Christianity, spread by the sword, using Eusebius' text as justification for the horrendous infliction of pain and suffering.

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