BoNey

*sigh*

As if we need more fundies in Indonesia.

Despite being the largest Muslim nation in the world, we have a Christian minority that's extremely fanatical, hell, certain denominations are borderline cult-like. The combination of a history infused with religious beliefs (many still believe that the resistance against the 300-year colonization by the Dutch persevered because of spiritual backing) and a cultural mentality that discourages critical thought has allowed religions to influence practically all areas of life. You'd be hard pressed to find a single atheist in this country. I was the only atheist in my entire school. I still am the only atheist I know among my Indonesian friends (I go to an international school now and know a few people who are atheists there). We have some pretty crazy churches here, there's this one where almost every Sunday some guy gets possessed by evil spirits and then gets saved by the Pastor when he runs over and starts praying for him. We've had exact predictions on when the Rapture was going to happen 2 years ago, which resulted in panic among some of my more religiously-inclined friends.

Great to know that these missionaries are propagating these beliefs all across the archipelago

reprise

Your point is what? That because better medical facilities exist in major tourist islands like Sulawesi, the Saluans should be forced to come down from the mountains and be "civilised"?

Yangja Isuko

you are so, so wrong about this. i allready explained that an atheist (the non-strong variety) makes *no* claim about wether god exists or not, he simply *lacks* the belief in one. lacking a belief in something is NOT the same as believing it doesn't exist. *agnostics* on the other hand, say that we can NEVER prove wether god does or does not exist. therefore, agnostics have made a commitment wether atheists have not. I cannot comprehend why people continue to cling to the mistaken idea that atheists 'deny' god when they simply lack belief. please do make the distinction between strong and weak atheism.



i question the scientific value of that technique though. i doubt i'm the only one.

starling

That's horrifying! Why couldn't you post an article on the health benefits of malaria instead, that would be less upsetting!

THE POWER OF THE CREATION MESSAGE



In 1980 we were asked to consider bringing the Bible message to the Saluan people. It was clear to us that God wanted these hidden people to hear His message



there had not been one theft, divorce, wife-beating or adultery episode in the village as long as we had known them?

:banghead: So what exactly is their problem, hmm?

How do you know that your way is right? The people had never probed the depths of these questions before. But the desire to know was born in their hearts. At this point we introduced the Bible.

That's psychological attack on innocent people! Don't ask questions when you want to keep people from anwering them.

It took several weeks to teach just the first three chapters of Genesis. These stories struck a chord in the people's hearts. It was all so true.

Go home sheep herder, your truth is saying a lie over and over again until people can't stop calling it truth.

They had been devoted to their ancestor spirits, to be sure, but that was not all. They had been devoted entirely to themselves. They wanted wealth, good health, and ease.

Wait, if they are entirely devoted to themselves, then how exactly can they spare devotion for their ancestors? Lame, lame, lame attempt at sounding magnanimous, you only contradict your gestapo teachings.

"What if I go through the village at night, thinking the village is empty, in order to steal one of Uncle's chickens. I am almost to Uncle's house and I hear someone cough. I do not get the chicken. But, according to God, I am still guilty." These things are equally true with murder and adultery. Have we not all committed these things in our hearts?

Yes, yes stealing chickens is equivalent with murder and adultery. Oh wait, NO. God doesn't care what we think, it says so in the Bible! Every story of redemption includes temptation, God didn't punish Eve for thinking about the apple, or even listening to the serpent. They were punished for eating the apple. A sin committed in the heart is no sin at all. Assuming sins are themselves unconditionally wrong.

It took months of teaching before they would even admit that they were far from God.

Heck, it took Hitler years to convince the German majority to cleanse themselves of the racially impure.

What religions, armies, governments, and economics could not do, God's Word did.

No, your coordinated persistent psychological assault did. God was not with these missionaries, yeesh! Ick ack, eww yuck!

...

Thanks! That was a hoot. I feel for the people of Simpang, and hope that someone can get in and give an actual opposing argument to these brainwashing Christians, but overall I haven't been that mad in I don't know how long! It's nice to see people you can unconditionally detest.

The one message I actually sent to them:
"I don't know how you can live with yourself, to presume one truth superior to another truth. There is no greater sin."

Warthur

My point is this:

If the medical facilities are available to them, and they are using modern medicine to look after sick children of theirs, fine, no problem.

If the medical facilities are available and they are not using modern medicine to help children who are dangerously ill, then they are making a decision for these children that I do not believe they have a right to make: the decision to risk death rather than take advantage of the fruits of civilisation.