Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Loomis · 03-01-2006, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by praxeus

Its impressive to site the Genesis Apocryphon for this "proof" comparison. However, since the verse is not in the manuscript at all, it is also quite misleading.
http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/humm/Resou...Txts/1Q20.html

Shalom,
Steven Avery

Hey Praxeus,

Look what your link is saying about column 22:

Quote:

In column 22, a less direct translation can be seen, with the author reverting to the free reworking of the Genesis story which has been seen in previous columns, yet not returning to the first person except for conversation itself (Fitzmeyer, pg. 6).

Now go to your link and copy some text from their translation of column 22. Paste it here in this thread so we can take a look.

Loomis · 03-01-2006, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by praxeus

Its impressive to site the Genesis Apocryphon for this "proof" comparison. However, since the verse is not in the manuscript at all, it is also quite misleading.
http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/humm/Resou...Txts/1Q20.html

Shalom,
Steven Avery

Hey Praxeus,

Look what else your link says:

Quote:

Bibliography

Wise, Abegg, Cook. 1990. Dead Sea Scrolls: A new Translation. Harper Collins Publishers: pgs. 74-85

Is it okay with you if we look at page 83?

Quote:

The king of Sodom heard that Abram had recovered all the captives and plunder, so he went up to meet him. He came to Salem, that is, Jerusalem, whereas Abram was encamped in the Valley of Shaveh, that is, the Valley of the King, the Valley of Beth Hakerem. Now Melchizedek, the king of Salem, provided food and drink for Abram and all the men with him. He himself was a priest of God Most High, and he blessed Abram, saying, "Blessed be Abram by God Most High, the Lord of heaven and earth. Blessed be God Most High Who has closed your grasp about your enemies." Then Abram gave him a tithe of all the flocks that had belonged to the king of Elam and his allies...

Where’s Yahweh?

Did he take the day off?

Perhaps he was out flying around on the back of his cherub and blowing smoke from his mighty nostrils. :rolling:

Loomis · 03-01-2006, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by praxeus

(awaiting acknowledgement/correction)

Shalom,
Steven Avery

Hey Praxeus,

<unnecessary inflammatory comment deleted>

What requires an acknowledgement or a correction?

Johann_Kaspar · 03-01-2006, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amaleq13

anno urbis conditae or "in the year from the founding of the city" referring to Rome (ie 753BCE)

Correction: ab urbe condita

Amaleq13 · 03-01-2006, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johann_Kaspar

Correction: ab urbe condita

That's "from the foundation of the city" and I've seen both offered as the basis for AUC.

Johann_Kaspar · 03-01-2006, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amaleq13

anno urbis conditae or "in the year from the founding of the city" referring to Rome (ie 753BCE)

Second correction: anno urbis conditae doesn't mean : "in the year from the founding of the city" but "in the year of the foundation of the city".

Johann_Kaspar · 03-01-2006, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amaleq13

That's "from the foundation of the city" and I've seen both offered as the basis for AUC.

Please, provide a reference.

Johann_Kaspar · 03-01-2006, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Weimer

(...) the late second century AUC. (Heh, 4th century BCE.)

Mistake of about 150 years.

Steven Avery · 03-01-2006, 05:13 PM

Hi Folks,

The original claim.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loomis

And Genesis 14:22 is proof that editors tweaked things by inserting the word ‘Yahweh’ where it never was originally. (It’s not in the LXX, the Peshita, or the Genesis Apocraphon.)

The attempt to move the goal post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loomis

Hey Praxeus, your link says:
The king of Sodom heard that Abram had recovered all the captives and plunder, so he went up to meet him. He came to Salem, that is, Jerusalem, whereas Abram was encamped in the Valley of Shaveh, that is, the Valley of the King, the Valley of Beth Hakerem. Now Melchizedek, the king of Salem, provided food and drink for Abram and all the men with him. He himself was a priest of God Most High, and he blessed Abram, saying,
"Blessed be Abram by God Most High,
the Lord of heaven and earth.
Blessed be God Most High
Who has closed your grasp about your enemies."
Then Abram gave him a tithe of all the flocks that had belonged to the king of Elam and his allies...

The actual scriptures....

Genesis 14:
17 And the king of Sodom went out to meet him after his return from the slaughter of Chedorlaomer, and of the kings that were with him, at the valley of Shaveh, which is the king's dale.
18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine:
and he was the priest of the most high God.
19 And he blessed him, and said,
Blessed be Abram of the most high God,
possessor of heaven and earth:
20 And blessed be the most high God,
which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand.
And he gave him tithes of all.
21 And the king of Sodom said unto Abram,
Give me the persons, and take the goods to thyself.
22 And Abram said to the king of Sodom,
I have lift up mine hand unto the LORD,
the most high God, the possessor of heaven and earth,

As I said, your original statement was simply wrong, (and that is still unacknowledged). Verse 22 is not in the Genesis Apocryphon. To make it even worse you rolled your eyes quoting two verses where the Tanach and the Apocryphon simply agree on the usage.

Clearly you would do well in the
Apilouros False Claim School of Irrelevant and Diversionary Comparisons.

Maybe you should see if all the vavs are translated in synche with the verse numbers.

Shalom,
Steven Avery
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Messianic_Apologetic

Amaleq13 · 03-01-2006, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johann_Kaspar

Please, provide a reference.

Is your Google broken or are you too busy picking nits?

Dictionary of Difficult Words

Encyclopaedia Britannica:

The Christian Era is the era now in general use throughout the world. Its epoch, or commencement, is January 1, 754 AUC (ab urbe condita—“from the foundation of the city [of Rome]”—or anno urbis conditae—“in the year of the foundation of the city”). Christ's birth was at first believed to have occurred on the December 25 immediately preceding. Years are reckoned as before or after the Nativity,...

BTW good call on the horrendous "from"/"of" mix-up. I can only imagine the confusion it must have engendered.

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