Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Toto · 08-10-2006, 04:53 PM

In context:

Quote:

While there is no undisputable evidence of Christianity in Pompeii, several indications have lead archaeologists to conclude that a small Christian community may have existed in the city.

The largest piece of evidence for this claim is an inscription discovered by archaeologist Alfred Kiessling in 1862 on the atrium wall of a building now aptly referred to as The House of the Christian Inscription. The inscription is faded and incomplete, and as such, several interpretations of what the inscription once said have been put forth. However, the only word that has not been disputed and which appears in its entirety is the Latin word "CHRISTIANOS".

Ben C Smith · 08-10-2006, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainman

Readers whould be made aware that the article provides
the following disclaimer:

"there is no undisputable evidence of
(pre-Nicaean) Christianity in Pompeii".

You may be missing an important distinction. The word Christian appears to be secure, judging from the blurb. But the author appears to be saying that the mere word does not prove that there were actually any Christians in Pompeii. It does seem to prove, however, that there were Christians somewhere at the time.

Ben.

fromdownunder · 08-10-2006, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yalla

The second says "Palatine Rome 240AD"

I like that anachronsim. There was no 240AD in 240AD.

Norm

mountainman · 08-11-2006, 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben C Smith

You may be missing an important distinction. The word Christian appears to be secure, judging from the blurb. But the author appears to be saying that the mere word does not prove that there were actually any Christians in Pompeii. It does seem to prove, however, that there were Christians somewhere at the time.

Ben.

Thanks Ben.

Another source reports:
http://metamedia.stanford.edu/traumw...hristianity%3F

Quote:

several interpretations of what the inscription once said have been put forth. However, the only word that has not been disputed and which appears in its entirety is the Latin word "CHRISTIANOS". This inscription is particularly significant in that it is the first known appearance of the word "christian" in Western history (Berry 1).

I'd be interested in learning the various interpretations of what
the inscription once said --- with the "CHRISTIANOS" in context.

Pete Brown

Sven · 08-11-2006, 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainman

Readers whould be made aware that the article provides
the following disclaimer:

"there is no undisputable evidence of
(pre-Nicaean) Christianity in Pompeii".

You know, when you write is this way, it looks like as if the paranthesis was in the original text. I suggest to take a bit more care when citing other people. Looks like a nitpick, but given our experience with creationist out-of-context quotes, I think stringency in this matters is very important.

Fortuna · 08-11-2006, 07:49 AM

MountanMan,

Isn't this aobut the 6th time you have been made aware of this ? Does it yet appear on your web pages about pre-nicean evidence of a Christian presence ? (disputed or not).

How long before you will discover about the Christian scrawlings in the catacombs ?

andrewcriddle · 08-11-2006, 11:00 AM

IF Christianos was a meaningful term in Pompeii before Vesuvius it would probably imply that it was a meaningful term in Rome at the time of the Fire under Nero.

This might be relevant to recent debates on this forum about the plausibility of a Neronic persecution of Christians.

Andrew Criddle

Fortuna · 08-11-2006, 02:19 PM

Roger,

Quote:

From the slave-barracks on the Palatine. I'm told that it is in the Palatine hill museum, and I did look for it but it is not well-signposted.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

I visited the Palatine Hill in spring 2000 (it had just started to get warm again in Lazzio), and I'm fairly certain that I saw that image and inscription at that time. However, when I visited just last year (Dec 2005), and I did not see it in the Palatine museum.

Now, as I remember, and looked the second time, I am talking about the small museum that is at the top of the hill (and I remember it being to the left of the ruins as you approach) when you walk up the Palatine from the gate just across from the Colloseum and Arch of Connie (you pass through the arch of Titus en-route).

mountainman · 08-11-2006, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sven

You know, when you write is this way, it looks like as if the paranthesis was in the original text. I suggest to take a bit more care when citing other people. Looks like a nitpick, but given our experience with creationist out-of-context quotes, I think stringency in this matters is very important.

I take your point.
Thanks for making it.

Pete

mountainman · 08-11-2006, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewcriddle

IF Christianos was a meaningful term in Pompeii before Vesuvius it would probably imply that it was a meaningful term in Rome at the time of the Fire under Nero.

I appreciated the bolded IF.

We need more information.

Pete

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08-11-2006, 07:49 AM	#26
Fortuna Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 293	MountanMan, Isn't this aobut the 6th time you have been made aware of this ? Does it yet appear on your web pages about pre-nicean evidence of a Christian presence ? (disputed or not). How long before you will discover about the Christian scrawlings in the catacombs ?

08-11-2006, 11:00 AM	#27
andrewcriddle Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Birmingham UK Posts: 4,876	IF Christianos was a meaningful term in Pompeii before Vesuvius it would probably imply that it was a meaningful term in Rome at the time of the Fire under Nero. This might be relevant to recent debates on this forum about the plausibility of a Neronic persecution of Christians. Andrew Criddle

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