trendkill

One man stands up for his liberal values, and is reviled by his community. Commendable, but it looks like he's all by himself up there.

Rational BAC

Don't hurt your eyes with all that rolling.----------

Look at it this way. Do we live in a theocracy? No. Do we basically have separation of church and state? Yes. Who done that? Mainstream Christianity. Granted we did it for ourselves and not for atheists in particular, but there is a rub off effect. Which none of you appreciate.

If anything this nation is much more secular than it was 50 years ago. Why?------granted there was some pushing by secularists. But why have we become more secular? Because mainstream Christianity in our infinite wisdom tolerated it and encouraged it. You do not know what friends you have in us.

Calzaer

RBAC:
Still waiting.

Starboy

And the nation is much more religious than it was 150 years ago. Why? Because Christians began proselytizing like crazy. One hundred years ago atheists like Mark Twain were lionized in public. These days a public figure who is an atheist dare not let it out. There have been school boards that have banned the works of Mark Twain. Sorry, things aren't as peachy as you would like to paint them.

Starboy

the_cave

What about the simple act of voting or not voting? Imagine if all liberal Christians were fundamentalists...there could be a lot of different laws then, who knows?

Rational BAC

BINGO---the cave

I still say that atheists do not appreciate what we do for them-------just because mainstream Christianity is so overwhelmingly predominate in this nation. The fundies do not have a prayer (pun intended).

Fundies may wax and wane from one decade to the next, but in the end they will always end up no more than maybe 30-40% of Christianity. That is their limit. Will always be their limit.

So stop your worrying atheists. The sky is not falling. The sky will never fall. We will always take care of you. By sheer numbers.

Gooch's dad

RBAC:

Why is that the limit for the fundy percentage of the US population? IIRC, something like 50% of the US actually believes in young-earth creationism.

What magical law is there to prevent fundamentalism from increasing?

Rational BAC

There is no magical law. It just happens that way.

I remember one of the BIG times for fundies was the mid 80's under Reagan. Even in a somewhat cosmopolitan community like Tampa ------seemed like everybody and his brother was holding hands and praying before meals and shouting out AMEN.

Actually I was one of those holding hands too. Although I never felt I really fit in amongst what I considered to be narrow minded fundies, I was one of those born aginners too. ------

----Now in my case being born again did not mean I actually lost my lifelong skepticism and questioning about just about everything. It just simply meant that I accepted Jesus as my saviour and thusly turned from an agnostic back into a very skeptical Episcopalian.

And things turned back to "normal" sometime in the 90's. I rarely see any of that overt born agginism out in public. It was a fad that ran its course.

And that is what literal fundamentalism will do and always has done. Go up a bit, and down a bit, but never really take over this nation.

Now as far as opinion polls.----- You can get any answer you want---depending on how you phrase the question. I think that 50% is bogus.

Rational BAC

And now we got a little spike in fundamentalism because we have a born aginner President. And everyone just loves him. Or maybe not.

In any event probably our next President in 2004 or (Gawd forbid--do we really have to wait that long?) 2008----will be some kind of amoral SOB like Clinton who will give us prosperity and peace. And literal fundamentalism will tank again. Just to rise again at some future date.

But in the long run it is mainstream Christianity who has the final say so ---------and the percentages will never change drastically.

Gooch's dad

RBAC,

Sorry, but I'm not comforted at all by "it just happens that way". Islamic fundamentalism sure has majority support in quite a few Arab countries. I don't see what is inherent in fundamentalist Christianity that would prevent it from becoming a majority view here in the US.

Rufus' did give one great example of a Baptist minister standing up for church-state separation. Barry Lynn, the president of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, is another great example.

But how many liberal Christians do you know that belong to Americans United, or any similar organization?

RBAC, just "being there" doesn't cut it. You either stand up against the wrongdoing, or you're complicit.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Edmund Burke


-Kelly