Freethought & Rationalism Archive

George S · 10-30-2008, 08:45 AM

We have lost, I suspect, some of the meaning behind some of the rules.

For example, I read somewhere that part of a Baal ritual was seething a lamb in its mother's milk. Hence the prohibition. And I always thought that they thought Yahweh must be really stupid. The prohibition is not meat with dairy but a bit more specific. They just won't take a chance that He is too stupid to notice that they are not doing it as a Baal ritual when they eat a cheeseburger.

Wads4 · 10-31-2008, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucis

Quote:

Originally Posted by spin

As Zeus overthrew Kronos, so Kronos had overthrown Ouranos.

ouranus wasn't a real god because he was just an anthropomorphization of the sky. khaos was the true king of gods.

What about the Egyptian Amun-Ra? After all, his great temple at Karnak still stands.

Wads4 · 10-31-2008, 09:45 AM

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Originally Posted by Gawen

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Originally Posted by neilgodfrey

Yep. As minimilast implies, start with the archaelogical evidence. Then see where, when and how the different texts seem to best fit. Your above reconstruction is taking the stories in the texts as a narrative whole and treating them as primary evidence for the historical tales found in them. But comparisons of the different texts lead some to hypothesize (more than mere conjecture) rival schools, often contemporary behind the different texts. The claims of one to have "taken over" as the sole of dominant religion are arguably more propaganda re-writings of history than actual fact.

Neil

Yes, I can see this. But questions remain...how, where and when is El supplanted by Yahweh? And how can Jews reconcile the discrepancies, let alone Christians?

Then there is that bit of trouble that Elijah had with Yahweh's brother Baal, when he slaughtered Baal's prophets, (in retaliation for Jezebel slaughtering Yahweh's prophets,- apart from Elijah). But I expect that was alright because Baal was also an agricultural immortal God who resurrected in the Spring; which I daresay is why the populace asked whether Jesus was a new Elijah; --sorry, just rambling.

Wads4 · 10-31-2008, 09:55 AM

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Originally Posted by Minimalist

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God, in order to show the singular grace bestowed upon Moses, says to him:

There is not a shred of evidence to the effect that the exodus ever happened. That sort of leaves "Moses" out of a job.

Besides, if all this was supposedly recorded by Moses, and/or Joshua, allegedly around 1200 BC, rather than around 700BC and later, after the return from exile,--what language was it recorded in? Moses was brought up as a royal Egyptian (allegedly), so he would have written in that language, in hieroglyphics or hieratic. When would he have had time to go on a crash course in contemporary Hebrew with his slave friends working on Rameses' towns in the delta? And surely these Hebrews were not literate? Or were they adept at writing down a proto-Canaanite script which they taught to Moses? It does not make much sense to me. I think I prefer the Documentary hypothesis.

Loomis · 10-31-2008, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Hathaway

I read up on Asherah who is the mother goddess figure associated with snakes and magic trees. Is She the power behind the snake and the tree of knowledge in the garden fable?

Fyi there is an excellent post regarding Asherah on another forum:

The Tree of Life, Asherah, and Her Snakes

Loomis · 10-31-2008, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Hathaway

I read somewhere that part of a Baal ritual was seething a lamb in its mother's milk. Hence the prohibition.

That’s from the story of the Gracious Gods (Shahar and Shalim) in Ugaritic mythology. El gives Asherah and Rahmay very specific instructions on how to raise the ‘children’.

But the shit about “goat in it's mother's milk” is a mistake. It’s based on one single early translation by one single scholar (sorry I forget his name). But that translation is now considered erroneous by almost everyone, including the original translator.

Ironically it is the believers who are now arguing that that translation is accurate. They want it to be so in order to bring meaning to the 10th Commandment.

Sorry for no links. Google it yourself and you will see what I mean.

judge · 11-01-2008, 04:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joan of Bark

She's half Jewish. .[/I]

One cant be half jewish, as being jewish is a religious distinction not a racial one.
One could be half Solomon Islander but not half Catholic.

squiz · 11-01-2008, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by judge

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joan of Bark

She's half Jewish. .[/I]

One cant be half jewish, as being jewish is a religious distinction not a racial one.
One could be half Solomon Islander but not half Catholic.

Tell that to this guy:
http://jewishatheist.blogspot.com/

And from this article, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheist_Jew:

Quote:

Because Jewishness encompasses ethnic as well as religious components, the term "Jewish atheism" does not necessarily imply any kind of contradiction.

George S · 11-01-2008, 08:38 AM

My half-sister's daughter was born Jewish since her mother converted to Orthodox.

I myself am not considered Jewish by Jews (my grandfather was Jewish, but not my mother). This much Jewish heritage would have sent me to the gas chambers in the Nazi regime, however.

Being Jewish comes in two flavors: Socially-racially-culturally and religiously.

judge · 11-02-2008, 03:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Hathaway

My half-sister's daughter was born Jewish since her mother converted to Orthodox.

I myself am not considered Jewish by Jews (my grandfather was Jewish, but not my mother). This much Jewish heritage would have sent me to the gas chambers in the Nazi regime, however.

Well I suppose we are free to think that the Nazis had authority to decide who was a jew and who wasn't.
I would not be inclined to give them that authority, or credit for rational thinking around the issue.

I posted a picture of someone who is apparently jewish, and for all I know thinks of herself as jewish. And if she does not, then it is likely that we can find another blone blue eyed person who thinks of themself in that way.

Does the poster I originally replied to, have the right to tell them they are only half jewish, and not a full jew?

Anyway this was the point I tried to make.

I will concede that, yes, we can find those who think being a jew is a racial thing, but the "official" line from "jewish" organisations seems to be a concession that it is religious rather than racial when push comes to shove.

Although I stand to be corrected here.

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10-30-2008, 08:45 AM	#41
George S Contributor Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Austin Posts: 16,498	We have lost, I suspect, some of the meaning behind some of the rules. For example, I read somewhere that part of a Baal ritual was seething a lamb in its mother's milk. Hence the prohibition. And I always thought that they thought Yahweh must be really stupid. The prohibition is not meat with dairy but a bit more specific. They just won't take a chance that He is too stupid to notice that they are not doing it as a Baal ritual when they eat a cheeseburger.

11-01-2008, 08:38 AM	#49
George S Contributor Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Austin Posts: 16,498	My half-sister's daughter was born Jewish since her mother converted to Orthodox. I myself am not considered Jewish by Jews (my grandfather was Jewish, but not my mother). This much Jewish heritage would have sent me to the gas chambers in the Nazi regime, however. Being Jewish comes in two flavors: Socially-racially-culturally and religiously.

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