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Old 02-15-2013, 08:20 AM   #91
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The teachings of Jesus in the short gMark is the DNA of the EARLY writings.

The teaching of Jesus in the short gMark is consistent--I will be killed and then I will resurrect.

Mark 8
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31 And he began to teach them that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected by the elders, and the chief priests, and the scribes, and be put to death, and rise after three days.
Mark 9
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31 For he taught his disciples and said to them that the Son of man is to be delivered into the hands of men, and they will kill him, and when he has been killed he will rise after three days.
Mark 10
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32.......And taking the twelve aside again he began to tell them the things that were about to befall him:

33 Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of man shall be delivered to the chief of priests and the scribes, and they will condemn him to death, and deliver him to the Gentiles,

34 And they shall mock him, and spit upon him, and scourge him, and put him to death, and after three days he shall rise.
We know which writings are early based on their DNA--their theology.

In the short gMark Jesus ONLY taught that he would be Killed and then resurrect--that's all.

When Jesus resurrected the story ENDED.
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Old 02-15-2013, 08:51 AM   #92
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The teachings of Jesus in the short gMark is the DNA of the EARLY writings.

The teaching of Jesus in the short gMark is consistent--I will be killed and then I will resurrect.

When Jesus resurrected the story ENDED.
James Joyce was also 'pregnant with dispair' (from the "Wake" in retrospect), and was sure to die and resurrect and did this on the last page of his "Portrait with the words: Old father, old artificer, stand me now and ever in good stead," . . . to rise again on May 1 st when new life begins.

So it is not hard to figure out that when you are pregnant you will have baby, that must true, so let's not get stuck on this as fact, but rather consider what happened after that to this Jesus here now in Mark.

Now back on the ranch, the rancher knows that 'first time calfing heifers' are known to make a dash after that horrible ordeal that brings new life about, and so abandon the very reason that they are. To avoid this the rancher knows to take care of them so this will not happen, time and time again, or at least to often to him as the good shepherd in charge.

So yes, Mark's story Ended there, but also with no good news to dwell among us.

It is therefore that this good rancher knows that she can do it alone, and must do it alone in due course only, for her mother did, or she would not be here now. (cf from his mother womb untimely ripped).

But with his own abandonment also left the scene without new life for him, and so Mark is not wrong with all the mechanics in place to do it right, but only the good shepherd is missing and that forshadowed Luke to follow to cash him in and take him home.
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Old 02-15-2013, 12:21 PM   #93
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How do you guys interpret the two "for many" statements (10:45 and 14:24)? In what sense did the Jesus of shorter GMark give His life as a ransom for many and pour His blood of the (pre-existing?) covenant for many?
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Old 02-15-2013, 12:49 PM   #94
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The time when the Jesus story was composed is extremely important.

We have FOUR sources of antiquity that rule out any knowledge of the Jesus story, a Messianic ruler called Jesus of Nazareth, and the Jesus cult in the 1st century.

Philo the Jew of Alexandria, Josephus the Jew who lived in Galilee, Tacitus and Suetonius both Roman writers are witnesses of the 1st century.
Philo wrote up to around c 50 CE and mentioned sects called Essenes and the Therapeutae but NEVER mentioned Jesus of Nazareth, Jesus the Messiah, Jesus the Son of God, Jesus the Savior or that anyone or cult in or outside Alexandria worshiped a Jew called Jesus of Nazareth who was crucified for the Remission of Sins for All mankind.
Josephus, Tacitus, and Suetonius writing between c 75-115 CE acknowledged that a Jewish Messianic ruler was expected at around c 70 CE in Judea based on Hebrew Scripture but that the Jewish Messiah NEVER came.
.
From Eusebius, we had scraps from Papius. Papius obviously did not have anything remarkable to relate, and Eusebius was rather dismissive of him. Which strongly argues for Papius' knowledge of Jesus did not support the desired view of Jesus post gMark with all it's mythical accretions . Otherwise Eusebius would have almost assuredly used Papius differently than he did. This suggests that the second generation Christians that Papius questioned had little to offer as far a mythology as per later gospels.

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Old 02-15-2013, 02:57 PM   #95
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We know exactly what is found in the short gMark and we know what was Interpolated and added. We have a copy of the forgery called the LONG gMark

The post-resurrection visits by Jesus, the Great Commission authorising the disciples to preach the gospel to the WHOLE world and the Ascension were added to the short gMark by another unknown author.

The interpolations and additions to the short gMark DESTROYED the original plot of the author.

The author of the short gMark wanted to show that the Jews and even his own Jewish disciples Rejected Jesus as the Son of God and Abandoned him.

The author showed that in his story the very disciples of Jesus did NOT take up their crosses and followed him. The disciples FLED when he was arrested and he was bertrayed by Judas and Denied by Peter.

In the short gMark even the disciples did NOT really understand that Jesus was the Son of God and attempted to Save their own lives.

Now, based on Isaiah 6, the Jews must NOT understand that Jesus was the Son of God and Messiah UNTIL AFTER c 70 CE or AFTER the Jewish Temple has fallen and the cities made desolate.

The Jews MUST not be converted until AFTER the Temple has been destroyed.

Effectively, there could NO Jesus cult BEFORE the short gMark story.

No Pauline lettters and No Pauline Churches before the Canonised short gMark.
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Old 02-16-2013, 11:48 PM   #96
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The short [and earliest] version of gMark clearly shows the evolution of the myth from pure hearsay of some obscure sayings right up to gJohn and beyond when these obscure sayings of what Burton Mack calls the Jesus People, or the community of Q from whom the sayings originated.
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Old 02-17-2013, 12:08 AM   #97
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The short [and earliest] version of gMark clearly shows the evolution of the myth from pure hearsay of some obscure sayings right up to gJohn and beyond when these obscure sayings of what Burton Mack calls the Jesus People, or the community of Q from whom the sayings originated.
The Pauline letters are ALL after the short gMark in the Canon or after the Jesus story was known. After all the Pauline writers claimed he Persecuted the Church of God.

The Teachings of the Church of God PREDATE the Pauline letters.

Stories of Jesus MUST have been known in the Church of God when Paul was a Persecutor.
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Old 02-17-2013, 08:56 AM   #98
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We know exactly what is found in the short gMark and we know what was Interpolated and added. We have a copy of the forgery called the LONG gMark

The post-resurrection visits by Jesus, the Great Commission authorising the disciples to preach the gospel to the WHOLE world and the Ascension were added to the short gMark by another unknown author.

The interpolations and additions to the short gMark DESTROYED the original plot of the author.

The author of the short gMark wanted to show that the Jews and even his own Jewish disciples Rejected Jesus as the Son of God and Abandoned him.


The author showed that in his story the very disciples of Jesus did NOT take up their crosses and followed him. The disciples FLED when he was arrested and he was bertrayed by Judas and Denied by Peter.

In the short gMark even the disciples did NOT really understand that Jesus was the Son of God and attempted to Save their own lives.

Now, based on Isaiah 6, the Jews must NOT understand that Jesus was the Son of God and Messiah UNTIL AFTER c 70 CE or AFTER the Jewish Temple has fallen and the cities made desolate.

The Jews MUST not be converted until AFTER the Temple has been destroyed.

Effectively, there could NO Jesus cult BEFORE the short gMark story.

No Pauline lettters and No Pauline Churches before the Canonised short gMark.
This is amazing!

I tend to agree with you.

Were accounts of the Great Commission in the other gospels also interpolated?

Other than the longer ending of Mark in 16:9-20, were other interpolations made?

Is the shorter version of Mark the same as Ur-Markus/

Thanks!
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Old 02-17-2013, 10:39 AM   #99
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I still wonder what the two "for many" statements (10:45 and 14:24) are hinting at if His death merely marks the end of a career in which He preaches repentance but is rejected and misunderstood. In what sense did the Jesus of shorter GMark give His life as a ransom for many and pour His blood of the (pre-existing?) covenant for many?
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Old 02-17-2013, 12:13 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by aa5874 View Post
We know exactly what is found in the short gMark and we know what was Interpolated and added. We have a copy of the forgery called the LONG gMark

The post-resurrection visits by Jesus, the Great Commission authorising the disciples to preach the gospel to the WHOLE world and the Ascension were added to the short gMark by another unknown author.

The interpolations and additions to the short gMark DESTROYED the original plot of the author.

The author of the short gMark wanted to show that the Jews and even his own Jewish disciples Rejected Jesus as the Son of God and Abandoned him.

The author showed that in his story the very disciples of Jesus did NOT take up their crosses and followed him. The disciples FLED when he was arrested and he was bertrayed by Judas and Denied by Peter.

In the short gMark even the disciples did NOT really understand that Jesus was the Son of God and attempted to Save their own lives.

Now, based on Isaiah 6, the Jews must NOT understand that Jesus was the Son of God and Messiah UNTIL AFTER c 70 CE or AFTER the Jewish Temple has fallen and the cities made desolate.

The Jews MUST not be converted until AFTER the Temple has been destroyed.

Effectively, there could NO Jesus cult BEFORE the short gMark story.

No Pauline lettters and No Pauline Churches before the Canonised short gMark.
The reason for the late additions is that there was a following despite the fact that they did not understand, and even today Mark is the pilar of faith among them and the additions only confirm how wrong they are, just as how wrong that they were already then.

The difference is that until Luke was there only the wrong was known and the caution of Isaiah is there only because he knew they would, and will, and did, and already had long since before Isaiah wrote that caution.

It is just a natural thing to do for seekers who look with curious eyes but do not see, and so indeed what they see is the Son of God but he abandoned them and they worship the idol that they saw who brings not peace but strife among the Jews.

The Canon came after Luke set the record straight because you cannot have a wrong without right, and nothing has changed today where the right is still denied by the Matthew and Mark discipleship who still spread strife instead of peace, and the iconoclast/holoclast is still as real as ever.
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