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Old 03-15-2013, 03:30 PM   #91
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I will give a final statement.

Yeshua died, and was buried on Wednesday at sunset
Thank you for your summary.

Where in the NT say he died on Wednesday?


Quote:
The day of the death of Christ


Jesus died on Friday, the fifteenth day of Nisan. That He died on Friday is clearly stated by Mark 15:42, Luke 23:54, and John 19:31. The few writers who assign another day for Christ's death are practically lost in the multitude of authorities who place it on Friday. What is more, they do not even agree among themselves: Epiphanius, e.g., places the Crucifixion on Tuesday; Lactantius, on Saturday; Westcott, on Thursday; Cassiodorus and Gregory of Tours, not on Friday.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08377a.htm

Why is the precise day of the week important to you?
Hi Iskander, first, thank you for your questions. Second, no where in the NT does it state that Yeshua died on Friday. That is just a wrong assumption by those who are not familiar with Elohim's Sabbaths and Feast Days. And the reason it is important is because IF Yeshua died on Friday and was put in the tomb at sunset on Friday and then raised at sunrise on Sunday, we only have 2 nights and 1 day. Yeshua said the only sign He would give is for Him to be in the grave for three days and three nights. If Yeshua was put in the grave at sunset on Wednesday, then you would have three days and three nights that He would be in the grave. I would think it is important for Yeshua to fulfill the Sign He gave. Thanks and have a great Sabbath. KB
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Old 03-15-2013, 04:14 PM   #92
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EVERY Sabbath had a day of preparation, weekly Sabbaths, and High Day Sabbaths, and especially the Sabbath Day that always falls on the 15th day of Nissan (after Passover).
Paraskeue does not occur in the LXX. It has been argued that its currency among the Jews in the early Roman period is confirmed by its appearance as the name of the day before sabbath in a decree of Augustus in favor of the Jews of Asia (Josephus, Ant. xvi 163). I am not so convinced. The term also appears in the Didache. I have perhaps greater suspicion about the Josephan corpus than most. In order for me to believe that every Sabbath had a day of preparation I would need to see evidence from Jewish sources to this effect. I have not found this.
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Old 03-15-2013, 04:19 PM   #93
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Although with that said I guess it is possible that the gospel author was attached to a community that used the Book of Jubilees which has at its very conclusion the word of God as follows:

Quote:
Ye shall do no work whatever on the Sabbath day save what ye have prepared for yourselves on the sixth day, so as to eat, and drink, and rest, and keep Sabbath from all work on that day, and to bless the Lord your God, who has given you a day of festival and a holy day: and a day of the holy kingdom for all Israel is this day among their days for ever.
But if the author of the gospel used the Book of Jubilees we are dealing with a proto-Christian culture which would be considered - a heresy.
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Old 03-15-2013, 04:30 PM   #94
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Thank you for your summary.

Where in the NT say he died on Wednesday?





http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08377a.htm

Why is the precise day of the week important to you?
Hi Iskander, first, thank you for your questions. Second, no where in the NT does it state that Yeshua died on Friday. That is just a wrong assumption by those who are not familiar with Elohim's Sabbaths and Feast Days. And the reason it is important is because IF Yeshua died on Friday and was put in the tomb at sunset on Friday and then raised at sunrise on Sunday, we only have 2 nights and 1 day. Yeshua said the only sign He would give is for Him to be in the grave for three days and three nights. If Yeshua was put in the grave at sunset on Wednesday, then you would have three days and three nights that He would be in the grave. I would think it is important for Yeshua to fulfill the Sign He gave. Thanks and have a great Sabbath. KB
Thank you.

Only a brief comment: The Wednesday choice is only the choice of a very few Christians.


Jesus: Nativity - Passion – Resurrection
Geza Vermes
ISBN-13: 978-0141046228
Page 247


Geza Vermes writes

Quote:
The three synoptic evangelists report that at the approach of nightfall on Friday, shortly before Sabbath began, Joseph of Arimathea...obtained permission from Pilate to take down the body from the cross

Jewish writers agree with Catholics and Reformed Churches on the day of the week as it is written in the gospels.

Is your insistence on Wednesday a personal crusade?

Jesus said “ the only sign He would give is for Him to be in the grave for three days and three nights” ?. Where did he say that?


Remember Thomas



Doubting Thomas
Caravaggio
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Old 03-15-2013, 05:55 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by Ken Brown View Post

Hi Iskander, first, thank you for your questions. Second, no where in the NT does it state that Yeshua died on Friday. That is just a wrong assumption by those who are not familiar with Elohim's Sabbaths and Feast Days. And the reason it is important is because IF Yeshua died on Friday and was put in the tomb at sunset on Friday and then raised at sunrise on Sunday, we only have 2 nights and 1 day. Yeshua said the only sign He would give is for Him to be in the grave for three days and three nights. If Yeshua was put in the grave at sunset on Wednesday, then you would have three days and three nights that He would be in the grave. I would think it is important for Yeshua to fulfill the Sign He gave. Thanks and have a great Sabbath. KB
Thank you.

Only a brief comment: The Wednesday choice is only the choice of a very few Christians.


Jesus: Nativity - Passion – Resurrection
Geza Vermes
ISBN-13: 978-0141046228
Page 247


Geza Vermes writes

Quote:
The three synoptic evangelists report that at the approach of nightfall on Friday, shortly before Sabbath began, Joseph of Arimathea...obtained permission from Pilate to take down the body from the cross

Jewish writers agree with Catholics and Reformed Churches on the day of the week as it is written in the gospels.

Is your insistence on Wednesday a personal crusade?

Jesus said “ the only sign He would give is for Him to be in the grave for three days and three nights” ?. Where did he say that?


Remember Thomas



Doubting Thomas
Caravaggio
Hi Iskander, you're welcome. The controversy over the Friday crucifixion versus the Wednesday crucifixion is determined by those women who buy and prepare burial perfumes. These women who followed Yeshua from Galilee were at the grave site and watch as Joseph of Arimathea rolled the stone over the entrance to the tomb. The Sabbath was starting. They were outside the city and had to "return" to where they were. They didn't have cars and there were not any modern cooking conveniences.

Now picture this, Luke tells us that they return and prepare these burial perfumes and THEN rest on the Sabbath in obedience to the commandment. So somehow they raced back to where they had come from and then started a fire, boiled oil, added ingredients and finished this all Friday evening before sunset? No, absolutely not!! The problem is that there was such a great rush in getting Yeshua buried BEFORE sunset and these women were out at the tomb watching the stone rolled in place, there is absolutely no rational explanation for this to occur on Friday, right at sunset. So it just doesn't make any common sense that this could have been on Friday evening.

Then we have Mark's account which states that the women go out and purchase the ingredients AFTER the Sabbath. When was this? Saturday night? Or as Spin thinks early Sunday morning? Think along the lines of how it would have been back then. There was no electric for nighttime shopping, and shops would have been closed for the Sabbath and it doesn't seem very reasonable for them to be opened Saturday evening or Sunday morning BEFORE sunrise, does it?

So Iskander, we are left with the only logical and rational conclusion there is. Yeshua did exactly as He predicted in Matt 12:39-40, He was in the tomb for three days and three nights. Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday nights, and Thursday, Friday, and Saturday days. He rose exactly 72 hours after He was placed in the tomb on Saturday at sunset, right as the 1st day of the week was dawning/starting in the evening.

Don't get confuse about the fact that the day following Yeshua's death was a Sabbath. It wasn't the weekly Sabbath, it was the High Day Sabbath for the 1st day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, which always follows the preparation day of the Passover where the lambs were slaughtered. Wednesday sunset to Thursday sunset was this High Day Sabbath that followed Yeshua's death. Hope this helps you understand what happened. KB
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Old 03-15-2013, 06:07 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by Stephan Huller
In order for me to believe that every Sabbath had a day of preparation I would need to see evidence from Jewish sources to this effect.
Quote:
.......

21. And they gathered it every morning, every man according to his eating: and when the sun waxed hot, it melted.

22. And it came to pass, that on the sixth day they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for one man: and all the rulers of the congregation came and told Moses.

23. Then he said to them; "This is what יהוה has said: 'Tomorrow is a Sabbath rest, a Holy Sabbath to יהוה.
Bake what you will bake, and boil what you will boil; and lay up for yourselves all that remains, to be kept until morning."

24. So they laid it up till morning, as Moses commanded; and it did not stink, nor were there any worms in it.

25. Then said Moses; "Eat that today, for today is Sabbath to יהוה ; today you will not find it in the field.

26. Six days you shall gather it, but on The Seventh Day Sabbath, in it there shall be none."

27. Now it happened that some of the people went out on The Seventh Day to gather, but they found none.

28. And יהוה said to Moses; "How long do you refuse to keep My Commandments and My Laws?

29. "See, יהוה has given you The Sabbath; Therefore He gives you on the sixth day bread for two days.
Let every man remain in his place; let no man go out of his place on The Seventh Day."

30. So the people rested on The Seventh Day. (Exodus 16:21-30)
Quote:
"Work shall be done for six days, but The Seventh Day shall be a Holy Day for you, a Sabbath of rest to יהוה
Whoever does any work on it shall be put to death." (Exodus 35:2)

The preperation was on the SIXTH day of the week, for The Seventh Day Sabbath.

No working, no baking, no boiling, no cooking on The Seventh Day, THE Sabbath rest.
The women were to enjoy The Sabbath rest from their daily labors also.


.
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Old 03-15-2013, 06:09 PM   #97
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EVERY Sabbath had a day of preparation, weekly Sabbaths, and High Day Sabbaths, and especially the Sabbath Day that always falls on the 15th day of Nissan (after Passover).
Paraskeue does not occur in the LXX. It has been argued that its currency among the Jews in the early Roman period is confirmed by its appearance as the name of the day before sabbath in a decree of Augustus in favor of the Jews of Asia (Josephus, Ant. xvi 163). I am not so convinced. The term also appears in the Didache. I have perhaps greater suspicion about the Josephan corpus than most. In order for me to believe that every Sabbath had a day of preparation I would need to see evidence from Jewish sources to this effect. I have not found this.
Hi Stephan, so the only Sabbath day the Jewish people prepare for is the weekly Sabbath? KB
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Old 03-15-2013, 06:16 PM   #98
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My point was merely that there is no evidence for it being designated 'the Day of Preparation'
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Old 03-15-2013, 06:36 PM   #99
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My point was merely that there is no evidence for it being designated 'the Day of Preparation'
Hi Stephan, you need to clarify yourself here. Are you saying that the Sabbath day that Jewish people count from for Shavuot did not have a preparation day before it? KB
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Old 03-15-2013, 06:53 PM   #100
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You know I have Samaritan taste. The Pentateuch only says "From the day after the Sabbath, the day you brought the sheaf of the wave offering, count off seven full weeks."
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