bfniii

you would rather believe that concoction than the most well-supported historical document ever known? that's a leap of faith.

bfniii

interesting. what Biblical claims are you referring to that have been shot down?

bfniii

maybe they had no reason to disbelieve or refute the christian stories or writings from that time.

Mageth

Believing that the Bible is the "most well-supported historical document ever known" is what's a "leap of faith". Sorry to disappoint you, but it ain't.

Mageth

What do you mean, "conteporary documents" in which Jesus didn't appear as a character? :huh:

Soul Invictus

Hi Vinnie. Got a couple of questions...

To whom would will appeal to for the mentioning of Jesus then? Surely we know that the Romans were recordkeepers and I don't see any vested interest there would be in excluding Jesus's existence, if he did exist.


But there is a Jesus behind the gospels.

Can you advise me as to whom your authority or sources are for this reference and are the contemporaries to the timeframe? Thanks.

Mageth

The problem is not whether they had a reason to "disbelieve or refute" the stories; the problem is that, given the fantastical nature of those stories, they would at least have had a reason to record them or report about them if they had knowledge of them. "Extra! Earthquake hits Jerusalem! Temple Curtain rent in twain; dead rise from their graves! Latest reports are that a local "prophet" reportedly crucified by the Romans on Friday was seen walking the streets again on Sunday!"

Occams_Razor

The year is 4000 a.d. The millions of followers of Vinnieism state that on June 8, 1981 their savior, Vinnie of Waterbury was born. He purportedly had many followers and it is told that many incredible divine and mysterious events happened in Waterbury during his lifetime with him as a focus--events that would draw the attention of any chronicler living in or near Waterbury in that ancient kingdown of USA. Yet, though there are historical records of events from that time and near that area--records by individuals specifically recording the occurrences of the group Vinnie supposedly was a member of-- the first mention of Vinnie is many years after his death and the "historical record of Vinnie" only grows clearer the farther chronologically you look after his supposed life and death. Do you think Vinnie's divinity and the amazing details of his life are called into question?

Evidence?

bfniii

what makes the Bible less supported or credible than other historical documents?

the Bible is credible in:
manuscript evidence
manuscript reliability
textual comparison to other works of antiquity
internal evidence
external evidence

having studied each of the above aspects, it isn't a leap of faith at all to believe the Bible credible.

bfniii

if the events weren't true, why isn't there a counter movement devoted to the truth? there were plenty of people who opposed christianity and had the perfect motive to refute the historical claims of christianity. additionally, with these stories floating around, there seems to be no need to record them further because they were already getting propagated orally and textually. the people who converted to christianity simply became absorbed into the movement. the people who didn't convert don't refute the historical credibility of the events, they merely refuse to acquiesce to christian doctrines.