Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Clivedurdle · 10-25-2007, 11:08 AM

Quote:

God Jesus Christos.

Another version of this website has Lord Jesus Christ - are they alternate translations?

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...=1137605908173

Quote:

In an unprecedented move, Israel's top archaeological body is recommending that the Megiddo Prison be relocated due to the recent discovery of the most ancient Christian place of worship ever found in Israel on the grounds of the prison.

And does this book discuss fish?

Clivedurdle · 10-25-2007, 11:21 AM

I was here earlier this week

http://www.bradingromanvilla.org.uk/

and was surprised to see a description of what to me was an obviously typical senior Roman believer in the true gods described as having xian insignia. One of the designs had the four winds in each corner and a note said that this was said by some to be evidence of the four evangelists. I could not quite see what a place decorated withe Bacchus and Medusa had to do with xianity!

There was some comment about a senior Bishop from Constantinople having lived there.

Is this happening with archealogy all over the place? The most tenuous connections are made?

Clivedurdle · 10-25-2007, 11:38 AM

Another fascinating thing is the seeming unprofessional use of language I see by archaeologists - they refer for example to the Roman "occupation", and Roman "Conquest".

As I understand it an awful lot of people wanted to be Romans and the barbarian invasions were not really to destroy Rome but to get in!

youngalexander · 10-25-2007, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainman

What archaeological citations underpin your statement
that the Archeology of Christianity begins at the earliest
180 C.E., perhaps 200 C.E? What in fact are these
earliest archaeological citations to which you refer?

Just the usual suspects Pete, starting with Callistus.

I was more taken with Jesus and Archeology being a trifle incongruous, especially in the 1st C.

mountainman · 10-30-2007, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by youngalexander

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainman

What archaeological citations underpin your statement
that the Archeology of Christianity begins at the earliest
180 C.E., perhaps 200 C.E? What in fact are these
earliest archaeological citations to which you refer?

Just the usual suspects Pete, starting with Callistus.

Did you read that RadioCarbon report on Callixtus?
There is a link on my page regarding the the catacombs
as being any form of independent witness to "prenicene christianity".

The early (ie: preNicene) dates are a result of extrapolation.

They expect things to get older "down the back of the crypt".
What a nice way to extrapolate history.

Seriously Young Alexander, what have you got from those
other books you have read in regard to archaeological citations
to the existence of "early christianity" not mentioned in my
thesis, or at my website?

Best wishes,

Pete Brown

Antipope Innocent II · 10-30-2007, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clivedurdle

Another fascinating thing is the seeming unprofessional use of language I see by archaeologists - they refer for example to the Roman "occupation", and Roman "Conquest".

Then I guess those occasional uprisings in place like Britain, the lower Rhine, Germania Magna and Judea and Galilee weren't anything to do with being conquered and were actually over a desire for more aqueducts and ornate Latin poetry?

Quote:

As I understand it an awful lot of people wanted to be Romans and the barbarian invasions were not really to destroy Rome but to get in!

See above. Others clearly wanted the Romans to get out. You know - "Romanes eunt domus" and all that. Or "Romani ite domum", if you prefer. Either way, they weren't too happy with the Romans being there. Looks like "conquest" and "occupation" from where I'm sitting. :huh:

youngalexander · 10-30-2007, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainman

Seriously Young Alexander, what have you got from those
other books you have read in regard to archaeological citations
to the existence of "early christianity" not mentioned in my
thesis, or at my website?
Pete Brown

Thus far for Callistus Catacombs 200-250 say, I have a good handle on
who - ethnicity, origin, language, literacy, socio-economic, occupation
where - domocile, house churches, travel routes
religion - X orthodox/heretical(sic), presbytry, bishop
funerary - iconography symbolism & meaning

and absence of HJ.

youngalexander · 10-30-2007, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antipope Innocent II

Quote:

As I understand it an awful lot of people wanted to be Romans and the barbarian invasions were not really to destroy Rome but to get in!

See above. Others clearly wanted the Romans to get out.

I would not be so quick to jump to that conclusion. Clive has a point, especially concerning Britain. My current favorite TV is Time Team. It is a common feature to see Iron Age and later Saxon assimilation & amalgamation at Roman sites as the latter first "conquered" and then dissolved.

ETA: I presume that everyone realises that the board is in meltdown? Have a look at the Lounge or ---E---

Amaleq13 · 10-31-2007, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by youngalexander

ETA: I presume that everyone realises that the board is in meltdown? Have a look at the Lounge or ---E---

Yes and let's keep those discussions in those fora in which they are appropriate.

Thanks in advance,

Doug aka Amaleq13, BC&H moderator

Clivedurdle · 11-01-2007, 05:08 AM

I think it was at the end of Primary school we looked at a book about the withdrawal of the Roman legions from Britain, and how everyone tried to carry on as normal until the dark ages set in....

And seriously, there is a far more nuanced interactive picture now, not this baddy Romans goody Asterix picture.

Quote:

The Roman Era
2nd Century AD - AD340

By the mid 2nd century the farm had developed into an impressive villa with stone and wooden buildings on three sides of a central courtyard or garden. Brading Roman Villa was sited to take full advantage of Brading harbor situated between Sandown and Bembridge the main port of the Isle of Wight. Produce farmed at the villa may have been shipped to other parts of Britain and the Roman Empire in exchange for Samian ware from southern France, quernstones from Germany and wine and olive oil from Italy and Greece.

Calm waters around Brading Haven provided good fishing, including oysters, cockles and mussels the shells of which have been found around the Villa.

The forest that covered the northern land of the Isle of Wight was a rich source of food. Storks and cranes were hunted. The forest floor provided a home for wild boar, red and fallow deer. (the tusks and antlers of which have been found at the Villa). The sheep that grazed on Brading Downs provided wool and food. The peasant farmers tended both the sheep and crops such as wheat, barley, rye, oats and beans. Several ards and iron shoes, which formed wooden ploughs, have been found at the Villa and are now on display.

Probably no more than waist high, the stone walls of the Villa would have supported a stout timber frame, infilled with wattle and daub. Some walls were built with large boulders carried straight from the beach. Corners, doors and windows were constructed from blocks of Bembridge stone. The roof was tiled with limestone and clay tiles. Inside, the walls were finished with brightly painted plaster. Surviving fragments show floral and woodland scenes, a hanging basket of flowers and a peacock. Windows either often had iron grills, or small panes of misty green glass and heavy wooden shutters. The front door of the Villa had a grand lock faced with a large brass plate, and its key was later found in the remains of this once great house.
The Decline of Brading Roman Villa
AD340 - 1879

The Villa suffered a disastrous fire in the 3rd century AD. Despite this the site was still used for farming purposes for another 100 years. The decline of Brading Roman Villa started after about AD340, when estates in southern Britain suffered frequent raids by barbarian pirates. Life and trade were both at risk, yet Roman coins excavated at the site indicate human activity continued at Brading until the twenty-eight year reign of Emperor Honorius began in AD395.

In the chequered corridor of the main house, a deep stokehole was dug for a corn-drying furnace. The magnificent mosaics in room 12 survived, possibly buried and protected by stored grain. How long occupants continued to live in this sub-Roman style is difficult to tell. Once a building was abandoned, anything useful would have been scavenged. In the 5th century the Villa collapsed and was covered by a deep blanket of soil and leaf mould. By the time the undergrowth was eventually cleared for agriculture, the name and position of Brading Roman Villa was lost to sight and memory.

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10-25-2007, 11:21 AM	#12
Clivedurdle Contributor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: London UK Posts: 16,024	I was here earlier this week http://www.bradingromanvilla.org.uk/ and was surprised to see a description of what to me was an obviously typical senior Roman believer in the true gods described as having xian insignia. One of the designs had the four winds in each corner and a note said that this was said by some to be evidence of the four evangelists. I could not quite see what a place decorated withe Bacchus and Medusa had to do with xianity! There was some comment about a senior Bishop from Constantinople having lived there. Is this happening with archealogy all over the place? The most tenuous connections are made?

10-25-2007, 11:38 AM	#13
Clivedurdle Contributor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: London UK Posts: 16,024	Another fascinating thing is the seeming unprofessional use of language I see by archaeologists - they refer for example to the Roman "occupation", and Roman "Conquest". As I understand it an awful lot of people wanted to be Romans and the barbarian invasions were not really to destroy Rome but to get in!

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