andrewcriddle

I don't have Baarda's book on hand and don't remember specifically how he dealt with this point.

There is however a general tendency in the book to emphasise the Diatessaronic nature of Aphrahat's text.

It may be worth noting that (unlike the Curetonian) the Sinaitic Syriac omits the long ending, hence we have at least part of the pre-Peshitta Old Syriac omitting it and a pre-Peshitta broadly Diatessaronic author quoting it.

I find it simpler to explain this if the original Diatessaron had the long ending.

About the Western Diatessaronic text. There are plenty of Diatessaron influenced Western harmonies with the long ending (Itailan and Dutch) but influence from the Vulgate and/or Old Latin here would be very likely if the original did not have the long ending.

(Although the Eastern witnesses to the Diatessaron, and presumably the original, lack the pericope de adultera it is present in the Western witnesses, probably due to Old Latin influence in pre-Vulgate times.)

Andrew Criddle

MortalWombat

The original ending was:

Mark Chap 16:
9 And then Mary Magdalene got out of bed the next morning, went into the bathroom, opened the shower door. 10 Jesus was standing there. Jesus said to her (stepping out of the shower) 11 "What's the matter? You look like you just saw a ghost." 12 Mary Magdalene replied to him "For a minute I thought I did." 13 And Jesus replied "What're you talkin' about?" 14 To which Mary Magdalene said "You - oh, Jesus, it was awful. When I woke up, I thought that you were dead." 15 Jesus: "What??"
16 Mary Magdalene: I had a nightmare, a terrible nightmare. I dreamed that you were here and you were leaving, and Pontius Pilate was in his chariot, and he was waiting, and when we started to leave, he tried to crucify me but you pushed me out of the way (starts to cry), and then he crucified you and he crashed into a truck and he was killed. And then we took you to Joseph's tomb and you died.
17 Jesus: Hey... Mary Magdalene, I'm right here. And I'm fine.
18 Mary Magdalene: There was so much more, and Jesus it seemed so real! There was Peter, and there was Judas, and I was married.
19 Jesus: (chuckling) You ARE going to be married - to me, just as soon as we can.
20 Mary Magdalene: (crying again) I was so afraid. Oh, I love you so much.
21 Jesus: Honey, it's over. None of that happened.

Chris Weimer

Hrm... :rolling:

Rameus

From an anthropological perspective, I see no reason not to assume that Mark originally ended at 16:8. As a general rule, folklore tends to expand not contract over time. There are of course various ethnographic analogies for this in ancient literature, King Arthur, the Ramayana, the Mahabharata, (possibly) Beowulf, etc.

If it can be demonstrated that tales and folklore generally tend to expand and evolve over time, why should we treat the gospel of Mark as a special exception to this paradigm? Especially when Luke, Matthew, and John are further evidence of the evolution and expansion of the Jesus fable. Could it be cultural or ideological bias perhaps? Yes, I'm certain that has something to do with it.

Rameus

andrewcriddle

You are IMO quite likely right that Mark originally ended with 16:8. However ending a work with the comjunction GAR (for, because), which is the last word of verse 8, is definitely unusual.

Andrew Criddle

Rameus

Here is the translation as presented in my 19th century Bible:

Admittedly I'm not an expert in textual criticism, but this doesn't seem like a terribly odd place to end the fable to me. In fact it might even be an early form of apologetic meant to answer popular questions as to why nobody had heard of a man being resurrected by God in Judea. "You silly shepherds, you didn't hear about it because those two daft Marys never told anyone. Praise be to the Lord that Mark eventually found out and wrote it all down for us right here…see!�

I can honestly see Christianity spreading in the late 1st century on a concept as fundamentally absurd as this. My impression from various 1st and 2nd century authors is that the common folk were willing to believe just about anything if it were whispered loudly enough.

Rameus

Chris Weimer

Once again, it doesn't appear so absurd when you look at Greek tragedies...

MortalWombat

I think I remember seeing this explanation before on these boards. Anyone have a link to that discussion?

Rameus

And Tacitus wrote about the Phoenix birds that by some accounts lived 1461 years and occasionally flew to the Egyptian city of Heliopolis. Should we chalk that one down as historical too Mr. Weimer? I don't think it is a coincidence that Christianity arose in a place and time when people were extremely superstitious and where rumors exploded in every direction. To some extent, this tradition continues in parts of the Near East. Is it any surprise then that when I travel there I find myself surrounded by Copts proclaiming to know someone who saw the Virgin Mary somewhere in the desert? I think not.

Rameus

Diogenes the Cynic

Is there any precedent for a piece of Greek literature ending on "gar...?"