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Old 01-22-2008, 01:34 AM   #391
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In any case, Samuel Sharpe was in fact a Christian known also for a translation into English of the Bible, as well as for his studies of Egyptian hieroglyphics, following on the heels of Champollion and Dr. Thomas Young. Dr. Sharpe was thus extremely knowledgeable about Christian history and doctrine, and, I would wager, not prone to erroneous flights of fancy that constitute serious admissions against the interest of his own religion: To wit, his description of the Nativity Scene at the Temple of Luxor as being profoundly similar to that found within Christian doctrine.
The problem here, though, is that there ARE reasons for why a Christian would be prone to "flights of fancy" to find similarities. Many Christians in the 19th C WANTED to show commonalities between religions, to show that "all was one".

I just don't see you factoring their bias into account. But, the bottom line is that you shouldn't have to. If those 19th C authors gave their primary sources, you can use those sources. If they didn't, then you use their claims at your risk. As one reviewer writes of your "Suns of God" (my emphasis):
"Again and again, Acharya finds herself hemmed in by old writers who never elevated their claims above the level of hearsay (as she herself points out)... Lundy, Higgins, Inman, Graves, Doane, etc., they all claim they have read or heard this or that, but none of them can site a single source document. Acharya seems generously inclined to believe them. I don't... [D]id they get rid of all the evidence only after Doane, Graves, and the others had managed to see it? It is not that I distrust these old researchers. It's just that I cannot agree or disagree with their evaluation of evidence they do not share with me."
If they list their sources, then why not use them? And if they don't, how do you know that you can trust them? You call them "pious Christians" in your work, but don't appear to recognise that this may be a reason FOR them to indulge in flights of fancy.
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Old 01-22-2008, 06:29 AM   #392
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Acharya S, just simplify this matter and tell us why you think that JoeWallack is incorrect in his assessment that the order of events expressed in Egyptian mythology does not match the order of events of the gospel accounts of Jesus.
the order is not so much relevant, as it varies from gospel to gospel, including non-canonical stories. Catholic forgers and fakers like Irenaeus had dogmatic reasons for changing orders according to their needs.

<edit>

Klaus Schilling
The order matters in this case. If parallels are claimed, then parallels they need to be. It is not enough to just imagine them.
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Old 01-22-2008, 06:44 AM   #393
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The order matters in this case.
no, it doesn't, only apologistic charlatans claim that it does.

Klaus Schilling
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Old 01-22-2008, 06:57 AM   #394
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Thank you. Did Richard Carrier receive his PhD? If so, congratulations are in order.

Dr. Samuel Sharpe is indeed the source of the description for the "Nativity Scene" at Luxor, which I initially garnered from the writings of Gerald Massey. Sharpe was a well-respected Egyptologist and Bible scholar, not a "Skeptic." Nor am I a "Skeptic," as if that is some organization I belong to. I don't think that Gerald Massey described himself as a "Skeptic" either.

In any case, Samuel Sharpe was in fact a Christian known also for a translation into English of the Bible, as well as for his studies of Egyptian hieroglyphics, following on the heels of Champollion and Dr. Thomas Young. Dr. Sharpe was thus extremely knowledgeable about Christian history and doctrine,
I think it should be pointed out that the conclusion that Sharpe was knowledgeable at all, let alone "extremely" knowledgeable about Christian history and doctrine does not follow from the fact, if fact it is, that Sharpe was a good Egyptologist.

The degree of his knowledge about Christian history and doctrine can only be ascertained by an examination of what he has to say about those subjects, not what he said about matters Egyptian.


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and as we have historical assurance that the chapters in Matthew's Gospel which contain the Miraculous Birth of Jesus are an after addition not in the earliest manuscripts,
Umm, what?? In which of the earliest manuscripts of Matthew do Matt. 1-2 not appear?

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Old 01-22-2008, 07:03 AM   #395
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The order matters in this case.
no, it doesn't, only apologistic charlatans claim that it does.

Klaus Schilling
I'm sure Richard Carrier will be interested to know that he is "an apologist(ic) charlatan".

In any case, Klaus, why should anybody accept as true anything you claim?

Jeffrey
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Old 01-22-2008, 07:40 AM   #396
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Is this how you guys welcome the nice lady to BC & H? You cannot even leave her with something to hold on to, even if her work is clearly manure? Be nice.
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Old 01-22-2008, 07:47 AM   #397
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Obviously, Sharpe's assessment of the Egyptian accounts influencing the Gospel of Luke is not lost on me, for one. Nor do I believe that such an assessment should open up either of us to all manner of irrational hysteria and vitriol.
I'd be grateful if you could point out any post here that contains "the irrational hysteria and vitriol" against you that you speak of, let alone (and more importantly) that comes close in character, form, tenor, and tone to the attack against IIDB members that you engaged in here.

With thanks in advance,

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Old 01-22-2008, 07:56 AM   #398
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Like Euhemeros, Brunner fraudulently explains gods like Jesus away by telling people that it's just an putstanding human. This procedure has already been denounced as fraudulent by Plutarch 1900 years ago.
I only meant that your position has some thought behind it, not that it has any real merit. After all, how many gods weep?
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Old 01-22-2008, 07:58 AM   #399
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Is this how you guys welcome the nice lady to BC & H? You cannot even leave her with something to hold on to, even if her work is clearly manure? Be nice.
Wow. Did anyone else's irony meter just break?

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Old 01-22-2008, 08:06 AM   #400
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The order matters in this case.
no, it doesn't, only apologistic charlatans claim that it does.

Klaus Schilling
The order matters. If the visit from the god happens after the pregnancy has already occurred, then there is, like, not nearly the parallel that Acharya S claims. If Acharya S claims an order of events in Egyptian mythology, and the facts do not check out, then we need an explanation.
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