Freethought & Rationalism Archive

mountainman · 07-02-2009, 11:18 PM

The Orthodox Canonical version is plain and simple

One of the more famous parables in the new testament books
is that of "Parable of the Pearl Merchant". It appears in
the following form Matthew 13:45-46.

Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:
Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it.

That's it. Pretty plain and simple.

The Gnostic (noncanonical) version of the parable is far more advanced

There are two gnostic works which provide a great expansion
on the Parable of the Pearl Merchant.

(1) NHC 6.1 - The Acts of Peter and the Twelve Apostles
(2) "The HYMN of the PEARL" - embedded in the Acts of Thomas

Have many people read these texts?

Comparison

After reading the texts it is evident that the gnostic authors
were trying to present a great deal more depth to their
parable of the Pearl Merchant than the plain and simple
rendition of the authors of the NT canon.

Authorship

Who wrote the canonical and the non-canonical versions
of the parable of the pearl merchant? Nobody seems to
know. In which century of the common era were the
canonical and the non-canonical versions written? Again,
nobody seems to know, although the Nag Hammadi
material has been carbon dated to around mid-4th CE.

mountainman · 07-04-2009, 10:25 PM

Surely it needs to be conceded by Christians, those who are closet Christians, those who are ambivalent christians and even those who are non christians, even atheists, etc, etc, etc, that the gnostic renditions of the Parable of the Pearl Merchant are greater works of literary art than the summary rendition tendered by the editor of the canonical New Testament.

Ammianus describes the state Christian religion of the 4th century
as "plain and simple". Papias according to Eusebius was simple.
Perhaps we have been looking in the wrong place for wisdom?
The wisdom is not in the visible books of the new testament.
It appears to be rising out of the ground with the hidden books of the new testament.
Whoever wrote them - the gnostics -were not plain and simple.

We have been told by authority that the gnostics were some sort of "christians".
Perhaps it is time to ask ourselves where did this factual item arise?
Perhaps it is time to doubt Eusebius about non canonical things.
Eusebius tells us that these "Hidden Books" were heretical.

The gnostics were heretics.
The gnostics were christian heretics.
The gnostics were anti-apostolic heretics.
The gnostics were anti-christian heretics.
The gnostics were heretics.

[PLEASE NOW REMOVE YOUR CHRISTIAN GLASSES]

The gnostics were not "Christians".
The gnostics were the last of the Hellenic civilisation.
Academic Platonic "Guardian Class" Alexandrian Greeks.
The lineage of the Academy of Plato.
Is anyone awake?

arnoldo · 07-04-2009, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainman

Authorship

Who wrote the canonical and the non-canonical versions
of the parable of the pearl merchant? Nobody seems to
know.

Your source indicates that Bardais~n wrote the Hymn of the Pearl.

Quote:

There are also other indications pointing to Bardais~n as the poet; not only are some of the leading doctrines peculiarly those of this distinguished teacher, as has been pointed out by Bevan and Preuschen, but also, as I have ventured to suggest, there is a certain personal note in the Poem.

Bardais~n’s parents were rich and noble; and their young son not only received the best education in manners and learning procurable, but he was brought up at the court of Edessa with the crown prince, who afterwards succeeded to the throne as one of the Abgars. Not only so, but Bardais~ n subsequently converted his friend and patron to Gnostic Christianity, and induced him to make it the state-religion; so that our Gnostic must have the credit indirectly of establishing the first Christian State.
http://www.gnosis.org/library/hymnpearl.htm

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainman

In which century of the common era were the
canonical and the non-canonical versions written? Again,
nobody seems to know, although the Nag Hammadi
material has been carbon dated to around mid-4th CE.

In reference to the Hymn of the Pearl your source states it was written prior to 224 A.D.

Quote:

Our Hymn is indubitably Gnostic; but of what school or tradition? Learned opinion is preponderatingly in favour of attributing it to the Syrian Gnostic Bardaisan (Gk. Bard‘sán‘ c. 154-222 A.D.), or, less precisely, to some Bardesanist poet. (For Bardesanes, see F. pp. 392-414).

This is borne out by the text of the Poem itself, in which the mention of the Parthians (38a) as the ruling race is decidedly in favour of its having been written prior to the overthrow of the Parthian dynasty in 224 A.D.

http://www.gnosis.org/library/hymnpearl.htm

arnoldo · 07-05-2009, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainman

. . .

[PLEASE NOW REMOVE YOUR CHRISTIAN GLASSES]

The gnostics were not "Christians".
The gnostics were the last of the Hellenic civilisation.
Academic Platonic "Guardian Class" Alexandrian Greeks.
The lineage of the Academy of Plato.
Is anyone awake?

What about the gnostics in India?

Quote:

It is interesting to note that Malikayal' speaks of St. Thoma's arrival by sea to the port of 'Maliankara' (Kodungallur). The commercial history of the times lends support to this assumption. He must have either sailed from Kalyan in north India or from the island of 'Socotra'. He established the following 7 churches and a Christian community in Malayattor as it is narrated in "St. Thomas parvam" by 'Rabban.

It is the hoary and unquestioned tradition in Malabar, which is corroborated by the customs of the place and by the ethnological research, that the Apostle was signally successful in the conversion of the high cast 'Nambuthiri Brahmins'. Four of the leading Brahmin families are believed to been raised to the privilege of the priesthood. They are:

a) Palamattam (Pakalomattam)
b) Sankarapuri
c) Kalli &
d) Kalliankavu.

Some of them still exist in 'Koravilangad' a place near Kottayam in Kerala. The head of the Malabar Church - the Archdeacon - had to be selected from Pakalomattam. This practice was continued among the Jacobite seceders, till a hundred years ago. There is a strong belief throughout Malabar that St. Thomas founded 7 Churches or group of Christians in the following places and the imprints and tradition proves it true.

http://www.indianchristianity.org/thomas.html

premjan · 07-05-2009, 01:41 PM

You have to note that St. Thomas Christians got caste benefits by becoming Christians so this story could have been manufactured to bolster that too.

arnoldo · 07-05-2009, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by premjan

You have to note that St. Thomas Christians got caste benefits by becoming Christians so this story could have been manufactured to bolster that too.

When do you think the story was manufactured?

Quote:

Syrian Christians derive status within the caste system from the tradition that they are converted Namboodiris, who were evangelized by St. Thomas[8]. Others argue however that the claims were made by the later Christians to obtain special caste status in the prevailing caste system of India. A notable point is that the Namboothiri history claims their origin in Kerala in the seventh century CE,[9] while Christianity in India originated in the first century CE, after St Thomas was speculated to have landed in Kerala at 52 AD[10]. Early writings place them at the level of the matrilineal Nairs but below the patrilineal Namboodiris[11]. Following efforts by the Christian Missionary Society in the 1880s to enhance the rights of "New Christian" low-caste converts, and their demands to equal status with Syrian Christians, some of whom later joined the Syrian Christian community, the "delicate bonds" tying Syrian Christians to high-caste Hindus were broken[12]. The effect of Hindu fundamentalist organizations and other upper-caste Hindus in regarding Syrian Christians as a polluting caste and banning their entry into Hindu temple grounds combined with Syrian Christian attempts to affirm assumed savarna status - which some were denying - to create a situation in which riots and mob attacks on Syrian Christians occurred. This led to a "chasm" opening between Syrian Christians and their high-caste neighbours[13].

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste_s...ian_Christians

mountainman · 07-05-2009, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainman

. . .

[PLEASE NOW REMOVE YOUR CHRISTIAN GLASSES]

The gnostics were not "Christians".
The gnostics were the last of the Hellenic civilisation.
Academic Platonic "Guardian Class" Alexandrian Greeks.
The lineage of the Academy of Plato.
Is anyone awake?

What about the gnostics in India?

Quote:

It is interesting to note that Malikayal' speaks of St. Thoma's arrival by sea ....

It is even more interesting to note that all ancient tradition
associated with the conquest of Buddhism and Hinduism by
the apostle Thomas is sourced from the gnostic "Acts of Tom".

The gnostic author of the Acts of Thomas tells us that Thomas
was shipped to India by sea as a slave, sold by Jesus at the
local Saturday afternoon markets. The reason that Jesus sold
Thomas as a slave was because when the Apostles were casting
lots for world dominion, Thomas got the lot to go to India. But
Thomas refused. He said he would not go to India.

'I am an Hebrew man; how can I go amongst the Indians and preach the truth?'

When Jesus appeared and said he should really go,
Thomas spat the dummy ....

Fear not, Thomas, go thou unto India and preach the word there, for my grace is with thee. But he would not obey, saying: Whither thou wouldest send me, send me, but elsewhere, for unto the Indians I will not go.

The gnostic author is not a christian.
The gnostic author is sending up the christians.
The gnostic author is an academic Greek who had studied the new testament.

The text of "The Hymn of the Pearl" is cast into Thomas' mouth
when he is in an Indian jail, but the author has embedded it not
to glorify Thomas or the "christian bishops and apostles" but to
preserve the text itself. Here are a few other translations of this
sub-text preserved by the gnostic author of "The Acts of Thomas"
known as The Hymn of the Pearl

India

One source of Platonic gnosticism may well have been India.
The gnostic author who assembled one of the texts being
discussed as the subject of this thread - containing an expanded
allegory and story of "The Parable of the Pearl Merchant" -
appears to make reference to the Gita, in "The Acts of Peter
and the Twelve apostles" ...

Lithargoel's City of Nine Gates

From TAOPATTA ....

He said to me, "This is the name of my city, 'Nine Gates.'
From the Gita ...

The embodied (Soul) who has controlled his nature
having renounced all actions by the mind
dwells at ease in the City of Nine Gates,
neither working nor causing work to be done.

--- Bhagvad Gita 5:13

The gnostic pathway to this city in which the great pearl
of great price could be seen and obtained for one's self
required "fasting daily from stage to stage".

Apollonius of Tyana trecked to India to converse with the Brahmins.
Much knowledge ("gnosis") was sourced in India (eg: mathematics)
but none of it was "Christian". The Christian stories appear late.

.

renassault · 07-05-2009, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainman

The Orthodox Canonical version is plain and simple

One of the more famous parables in the new testament books
is that of "Parable of the Pearl Merchant". It appears in
the following form Matthew 13:45-46.

Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:
Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it.

That's it. Pretty plain and simple.

The Gnostic (noncanonical) version of the parable is far more advanced

By the methodology of form, source, and redaction criticism, it is extremely unlikely that the much more developed Gnostic version was shortened into this extremely smaller canonical parallel. In all likelihood, it was expanded, and this was likely not the first expansion of the saying, but an expansion upon an expansion several times over.

premjan · 07-05-2009, 10:02 PM

Probably the legends of Thomas were if manufactured, made up much later - if Thomas came to India I suppose there is no reason to suppose Jesus might not have as well. But it could easily have been another St. Thomas from the Syrian Church.

renassault · 07-05-2009, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainman

Apollonius of Tyana trecked to India to converse with the Brahmins.
Much knowledge ("gnosis") was sourced in India (eg: mathematics)
but none of it was "Christian". The Christian stories appear late.

Well if you believe Philostratus he did. But then you have to wonder, if he was correct in his "Life of Apollonius of Tyana," why is it that the Indians somehow speak perfect Greek?

07-02-2009, 11:18 PM	#1
mountainman Contributor Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Falls Creek, Oz. Posts: 11,192	The Gnostic Parable of the Pearl Merchant The Orthodox Canonical version is plain and simple One of the more famous parables in the new testament books is that of "Parable of the Pearl Merchant". It appears in the following form Matthew 13:45-46. Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls: Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it. That's it. Pretty plain and simple. The Gnostic (noncanonical) version of the parable is far more advanced There are two gnostic works which provide a great expansion on the Parable of the Pearl Merchant. (1) NHC 6.1 - The Acts of Peter and the Twelve Apostles (2) "The HYMN of the PEARL" - embedded in the Acts of Thomas Have many people read these texts? Comparison After reading the texts it is evident that the gnostic authors were trying to present a great deal more depth to their parable of the Pearl Merchant than the plain and simple rendition of the authors of the NT canon. Authorship Who wrote the canonical and the non-canonical versions of the parable of the pearl merchant? Nobody seems to know. In which century of the common era were the canonical and the non-canonical versions written? Again, nobody seems to know, although the Nag Hammadi material has been carbon dated to around mid-4th CE.

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07-04-2009, 10:25 PM	#2
mountainman Contributor Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Falls Creek, Oz. Posts: 11,192	Surely it needs to be conceded by Christians, those who are closet Christians, those who are ambivalent christians and even those who are non christians, even atheists, etc, etc, etc, that the gnostic renditions of the Parable of the Pearl Merchant are greater works of literary art than the summary rendition tendered by the editor of the canonical New Testament. Ammianus describes the state Christian religion of the 4th century as "plain and simple". Papias according to Eusebius was simple. Perhaps we have been looking in the wrong place for wisdom? The wisdom is not in the visible books of the new testament. It appears to be rising out of the ground with the hidden books of the new testament. Whoever wrote them - the gnostics -were not plain and simple. We have been told by authority that the gnostics were some sort of "christians". Perhaps it is time to ask ourselves where did this factual item arise? Perhaps it is time to doubt Eusebius about non canonical things. Eusebius tells us that these "Hidden Books" were heretical. The gnostics were heretics. The gnostics were christian heretics. The gnostics were anti-apostolic heretics. The gnostics were anti-christian heretics. The gnostics were heretics. [PLEASE NOW REMOVE YOUR CHRISTIAN GLASSES] The gnostics were not "Christians". The gnostics were the last of the Hellenic civilisation. Academic Platonic "Guardian Class" Alexandrian Greeks. The lineage of the Academy of Plato. Is anyone awake?

07-05-2009, 01:41 PM	#5
premjan Obsessed Contributor Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: NJ Posts: 61,538	You have to note that St. Thomas Christians got caste benefits by becoming Christians so this story could have been manufactured to bolster that too.

07-05-2009, 10:02 PM	#9
premjan Obsessed Contributor Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: NJ Posts: 61,538	Probably the legends of Thomas were if manufactured, made up much later - if Thomas came to India I suppose there is no reason to suppose Jesus might not have as well. But it could easily have been another St. Thomas from the Syrian Church.

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