Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Jaybees · 12-15-2010, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Olivia

Just a question:

The Bible is not the only text to speak of a "day with the sun stood still." There are also references to it among indigenous tribes throughout the world, the same way there is a "great flood" story as well.

And though I have never seriously researched it, I've often wondered if a passing comet or meteor could have an effect on the earth's magnetic field enough to disrupt it's revolution for a short period of time.

Does anyone know if that is scientifically possible?

Could you give me the source regarding indigenous people with independent oral legends about a day when the moon and sun stood still?

I've googled for it and haven't been able to find any references to such groups.

Thanks for the help.

Chili · 12-15-2010, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Olivia

[While this is very quaint, it does not answer my initial question. If indeed the sun "stood still," it would make more sense to try to verify it by seeing if there are stories in various cultures regarding it. Jews are hardly the only ones capable of noticing an odd astrological event. And indeed, this is the case.

For example, take the Andeans. They have a myth from the reign of Yupanqui Pachacuti, II stating that the sun stayed away from their part of the world for more than twenty hours. The Annals of Cuauhtitlan from Mexico also describe an extended period of night. In Asia, there is an astonishing myth from the rule of Yao which states that the sun did not set for "days" and there was a crushing tidal wave that occurred during this time. There are far more than just these as the Incas, the Aztecs, the Babylonians, Persians and the Egyptians all have like stories of an extended day/night.

//

Sure, thanks but please remember that they all must speak in metaphors if they are going to tell about because the event is not conventional and far from a common occurance. On top of that can it not be anticipated because that requires our faculty of reason which itself must be out of function instead of just our of order. I must add here that I do not speak from experience but logic tells me so.

I like the 'sun stopped metaphor' and hope that you are wrong.

bacht · 12-15-2010, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Olivia

And though I have never seriously researched it, I've often wondered if a passing comet or meteor could have an effect on the earth's magnetic field enough to disrupt it's revolution for a short period of time.

Does anyone know if that is scientifically possible?

I would guess it's possible for gravitational disturbance to slightly alter the earth's rotation, but I think it would have to be a body the size of the moon or larger. A lengthy or significant alteration would probably have catastrophic consequences, on the order of the mass dinsosaur extinctions.

This kind of theory gets into Immanuel Velikovsky territory:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velikovsky

schriverja · 12-15-2010, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaybees

What's the latest explanation given by believers in biblical innerancy for Joshua's stopping of the sun?

Maybe this is an overly obvious question, but how did the ancients, before mechanical devices such as watches and the like, determine that the apparent motion of the sun had, in fact, stopped?

George S · 12-15-2010, 02:46 PM

It is a Story.

The general returned from a long battle that took all day. Subjectively it seemed longer than that. When he told the story, instead of saying "seemed" he said "was," and attributed the win to this YHVH god who was Israel's god.

Toto · 12-15-2010, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schriverja

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaybees

What's the latest explanation given by believers in biblical innerancy for Joshua's stopping of the sun?

Maybe this is an overly obvious question, but how did the ancients, before mechanical devices such as watches and the like, determine that the apparent motion of the sun had, in fact, stopped?

They would have used direct observation. The ancients were skilled at astronomical observation.

However, they would have had a problem measuring time if the sun actually stopped moving in relation to the earth.

Sheshbazzar · 12-15-2010, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Olivia

Just a question:

The Bible is not the only text to speak of a "day with the sun stood still." There are also references to it among indigenous tribes throughout the world, the same way there is a "great flood" story as well.

And though I have never seriously researched it, I've often wondered if a passing comet or meteor could have an effect on the earth's magnetic field enough to disrupt it's revolution for a short period of time.

Does anyone know if that is scientifically possible?

No. The earth rotates at

Quote:

1038 Mph at the equator.
Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_fast_d...#ixzz18FVV0yue

For the earth to stop its rotation it would need to bring its mass of 6 sextillion, 588 quintillion short tons (6.6 sextillion short tons) or 5.97 1024 kilograms, to a standstill. This would cause a conversion of mass into energy (heat). Think of slamming into a mountain at 1,000 mph.
Nothing on earth would survive to tell the story.

If one feels religiously compelled to accept that the Bible account records an actual battle, this part would better off to be recognized as simple hyperbole.
It could be by a 'miracle', but if by a 'miracle', it cannot be explained by any science that obeys the known laws of this universe.
Hence, NO, it is not 'scientifically possible'.

.

Minimalist · 12-15-2010, 09:16 PM

You'll never stop literalist clowns with facts, Shesh. They'll just tell you that their 'god' can do whatever he wants or some such bullshit.

Jaybees · 12-15-2010, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schriverja

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaybees

What's the latest explanation given by believers in biblical innerancy for Joshua's stopping of the sun?

Maybe this is an overly obvious question, but how did the ancients, before mechanical devices such as watches and the like, determine that the apparent motion of the sun had, in fact, stopped?

"So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day."

They wouldn't have needed much in the way of timepieces if the sun stood still that long.

Chili · 12-15-2010, 10:33 PM

. . . and time did not stop either except for time-as-such which only exists in the TOK. The right brain knows no time and is why the woman was not banned from Eden and I am not talking female here but woman as the womb of God and the material cause of man beneath the human condition that was added in Gen.3

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12-15-2010, 02:46 PM	#35
George S Contributor Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Austin Posts: 16,498	It is a Story. The general returned from a long battle that took all day. Subjectively it seemed longer than that. When he told the story, instead of saying "seemed" he said "was," and attributed the win to this YHVH god who was Israel's god.

12-15-2010, 09:16 PM	#38
Minimalist Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Arizona Posts: 1,808	You'll never stop literalist clowns with facts, Shesh. They'll just tell you that their 'god' can do whatever he wants or some such bullshit.

12-15-2010, 10:33 PM	#40
Chili Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Alberta Posts: 11,885	. . . and time did not stop either except for time-as-such which only exists in the TOK. The right brain knows no time and is why the woman was not banned from Eden and I am not talking female here but woman as the womb of God and the material cause of man beneath the human condition that was added in Gen.3

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