Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Diogenes the Cynic · 04-16-2005, 11:28 PM

Has anyone seen this story yet?

Apparently Oxford U has discovered a way to read a massive hoard of previously illegible classical manuscripts discovered in Egypt a century ago.

Quote:

For more than a century, it has caused excitement and frustration in equal measure - a collection of Greek and Roman writings so vast it could redraw the map of classical civilisation. If only it was legible.

Now, in a breakthrough described as the classical equivalent of finding the holy grail, Oxford University scientists have employed infra-red technology to open up the hoard, known as the Oxyrhynchus Papyri, and with it the prospect that hundreds of lost Greek comedies, tragedies and epic poems will soon be revealed.

In the past four days alone, Oxford's classicists have used it to make a series of astonishing discoveries, including writing by Sophocles, Euripides, Hesiod and other literary giants of the ancient world, lost for millennia. They even believe they are likely to find lost Christian gospels, the originals of which were written around the time of the earliest books of the New Testament.

From another story here

Quote:

The thousands of remaining documents, which will be analysed over the next decade, are expected to include works by Ovid and Aeschylus, plus a series of Christian gospels which have been lost for up to 2,000 years.

The other classical recoveries are amazing in themselves but it's the part in bold that really gets my attention. WTF are they talking about? what "series of Christian Gospels?" What do they mean "2000 years old?" What do they mean by "lost Christian Gospels?"

Do they actually have manuscripts which they know to be Christian Gospels or are they just saying they expect to find manuscript copies? If the latter, then why do they expect it? They can't possibly mean 2000 years old can they? Are they actually suggesting that they have 1st century Christian manuscripts?

I think that this information has to be inaccurate or botched in some way. If it were true, it would be the most significant archaeological discovery...since...since I don't know what. It would be bigger then the DSS.

Still, who knows what they might have? What if they have Q? You never know.

This story seems pretty cool as a whole but the claims about possible Gospels are making me go

:huh:

It has to be bullshit the way it's presented in those stories but I would like to know the ungarbled version of the facts. Does anyone know any more about this?

Utu · 04-16-2005, 11:48 PM

Take a look at these sites:
http://www.tyndale.cam.ac.uk/Tyndale...d/NTOxyPap.htm
http://www.papyrology.ox.ac.uk/

Diogenes the Cynic · 04-16-2005, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Utu

Take a look at these sites:
http://www.tyndale.cam.ac.uk/Tyndale...d/NTOxyPap.htm
http://www.papyrology.ox.ac.uk/

Of course. :Cheeky: :banghead:

The Oxyrhynchus fragments. For some reason I didn't register the name of the city when I was reading the story.

Thank you for the clue. I must be tired. I was kind of excited for a second.

Vorkosigan · 04-16-2005, 11:59 PM

There IS another hoard, one found at Herculaneum across from Pompeii, that has yield a lot of interesting stuff, including some lost writings of Zeno. But nothing Christian yet.

Vorkosigan

Diogenes the Cynic · 04-17-2005, 12:04 AM

Even the non-Christian stuff is pretty exciting and could yield excellent information.

advancedatheist · 04-17-2005, 08:52 AM

What if modern christians don't like what these ancient "gospels" say?

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/...p?story=630165

Quote:

Decoded at last: the 'classical holy grail' that may rewrite the history of the world
Scientists begin to unlock the secrets of papyrus scraps bearing long-lost words by the literary giants of Greece and Rome
By David Keys and Nicholas Pyke

17 April 2005

For more than a century, it has caused excitement and frustration in equal measure - a collection of Greek and Roman writings so vast it could redraw the map of classical civilisation. If only it was legible.

Now, in a breakthrough described as the classical equivalent of finding the holy grail, Oxford University scientists have employed infra-red technology to open up the hoard, known as the Oxyrhynchus Papyri, and with it the prospect that hundreds of lost Greek comedies, tragedies and epic poems will soon be revealed.

In the past four days alone, Oxford's classicists have used it to make a series of astonishing discoveries, including writing by Sophocles, Euripides, Hesiod and other literary giants of the ancient world, lost for millennia. They even believe they are likely to find lost Christian gospels, the originals of which were written around the time of the earliest books of the New Testament.

advancedatheist · 04-17-2005, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic

Even the non-Christian stuff is pretty exciting and could yield excellent information.

Who knows, maybe we'll have to revise our ideas about "the great books of the Western world." I rather hope they can find long "lost" works by the early and middle Stoics and the Epicureans, because these would really help to round out our knowledge of classical philosophy.

Naruto · 04-17-2005, 08:58 AM

I saw some threads about this on RR. If there are gospels that contradict the KJV, they'll go nuts and blame those damn satanist atheists.

Diogenes the Cynic · 04-17-2005, 10:02 AM

I'm merging these two threads on the same topic

DtC

Zeichman · 04-17-2005, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Naruto

I saw some threads about this on RR. If there are gospels that contradict the KJV, they'll go nuts and blame those damn satanist atheists.

I don't know anyone who would say that about the Coptic Thomas stuff, or Peter... or Greek Thomas... or Gospel of Mary... or any non-canonical Gospel for that matter.

says it all.

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04-16-2005, 11:48 PM	#2
Utu Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Washington Posts: 250	Take a look at these sites: http://www.tyndale.cam.ac.uk/Tyndale...d/NTOxyPap.htm http://www.papyrology.ox.ac.uk/

04-16-2005, 11:59 PM	#4
Vorkosigan Contributor Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Barrayar Posts: 11,866	There IS another hoard, one found at Herculaneum across from Pompeii, that has yield a lot of interesting stuff, including some lost writings of Zeno. But nothing Christian yet. Vorkosigan

04-17-2005, 12:04 AM	#5
Diogenes the Cynic Moderator - Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota Posts: 4,639	Even the non-Christian stuff is pretty exciting and could yield excellent information.

04-17-2005, 08:58 AM	#8
Naruto Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: NC Posts: 2,059	I saw some threads about this on RR. If there are gospels that contradict the KJV, they'll go nuts and blame those damn satanist atheists.

04-17-2005, 10:02 AM	#9
Diogenes the Cynic Moderator - Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota Posts: 4,639	I'm merging these two threads on the same topic DtC

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