Clivedurdle

Is there a problem then with commenting that Jesus and Heracles are both mythical demigods?

Toto

Jeffrey: I read this as admitting that your accusations against Doherty were UNFOUNDED, and that the quotes you gave are his examples of minor points.

The rules of this board do not seem adequate for your situation.

gstafleu

Hercules actually took the heavens from Atlas shoulders! Atlas was standing on earth carrying these concentric spheres on his shoulders. Somebody had to, or the whole constellation would have come crashing down to earth! Hercules was at that time as human in mythological time (in illo tempore) get. Here is a picture of him doing so.

Gerard Stafleu

gstafleu

I agree, such evidence has to be adduced. Again, I don't see it as a crucial point in the HJ/MJ debate. Sure, if you could show that the epistolians pictured Jesus purely in heaven, you would have scored a major MJ point. But, given the Dionysus example, not showing that doesn't do much to invalidate the MJ hypothesis. When it comes to scoring MJ points I find for example the fact that Hebrews seems to derive (almost) all its Christology from scripture quite interesting. I would submit that this points more towards an MJ (earthly like Dionysos or not) than towards an HJ. Not that this is incompatible with an HJ: the scripture readings could have been attached to him after the fact. But that requires an extra step we shouldn't take without evidence of its necessity. Taken as presented, such a scriptural being seems rather mythical to me.

Gerard Stafleu

Jeffrey Gibson

I was just using the very language Earl himself used as a way of admitting that/excusing himself when he was off base.

If he can do it that way -- and without notice from you "that the rules of this board do not seem adequate for his situation (whatever that means) -- I trust I may do so as well.

And what rules are you talking about?

Jeffrey

EarlDoherty

If you had actually read my article, you would know that the one “below” was the Atonement sacrifice performed with animal blood by the earthly high priests in the earthly sanctuary, to which the heavenly sacrifice of Christ, the offering of his own blood in the heavenly sanctuary, corresponds as the one “above.” This is the very meat of the epistle and, while it has been given its own unique twist, it is a striking example of the “as above, thus below” principle in the turn-of-the-era thought-world, including that of Christianity.

It is really a shame that there is so much blithe condemnation of my views by so many based on so little knowledge of them, equaled only by the little effort made to actually discover what they are. Another reason to regard my presence on the IIDB as a waste of time.

But to more important matters….

I do not accept that this moderator edited out statements in my last post that were entirely justified and an accurate assessment of Jeffrey Gibson’s actions, based on his own words. If one can’t call a spade a spade, the perpetrator simply gets away with it. I also do not accept that Gibson is apparently being allowed to continue on this board, especially since his subsequent words show that he is not changing his misrepresentations and other sordid tactics one whit.

At this point, however, I am beyond caring. I will make it easy on everyone and withdraw myself. This will be the last posting I will make on IIDB. I wish you all a long and happy life with Jeffrey Gibson. He has accomplished his goal. (We need an icon here to represent Jeffrey rubbing his hands together in satisfaction.) It is ironic that what has been sacrificed here is not simply a voice of rationality and free inquiry, but the supposed principles of the Internet Infidels.

Also, since I have no reason to think that any submission of my work to academia’s review would meet with any more honest or civil response than Jeffrey has given it, that submission is now very much in doubt. But in case anyone hasn’t noticed, I don’t need the respect or approval of the entrenched academic community to achieve success or influence. When Jeffrey publishes anything that has one-tenth of the impact of The Jesus Puzzle, or has books translated into four other languages around the world (with more to follow), or collects several hundred testimonials from grateful readers for any of his ideas, someone can let me know. In the meantime, I wish him a long and well-deserved obscurity.

I will regret my loss of contact with others here who possess more civility and open-mindedness than Jeffrey and his coterie, but sometimes principle and pragmatism have to override other considerations.

To these, my best wishes.

Earl Doherty

Yellum Notnef

The wrong man has just left the building.

Solitary Man

Different situation. Aeneas was born of a goddess and a mortal man but was not considered a demigod. There isn't a hard and fast rule for that status. Hercules was different, most likely because of his divine status before his incorporation into the Greek mythological cycle. Jesus and Aeneas both were different. Both were mortals, even though both were born of a god-parent. Just as Augustus wasn't a demigod because his "father" was Divus Iulius.

youngalexander

Oh, no doubt about that, but, the departure was voluntary!

As it happened, due to time zones etc., I lobbed in just after Earl's <edit>ed post and thort that he was somewhat asking for it. Mods are here to mod, you cannot go around demanding not to be edited and that it is either 'him or me' and so forth.

Hopefully Earl will calm down. Jeffery has a certain style, just a question of learning to deal with it. Unfortunately Earl lets J get up his nostril. Probably been working too hard. I suspect that a little time off will do everyone the world of good. I hear that Saturnalia is coming up!

As for the Hebrews article, for my part a considered response will require some time.

At least I discovered what the 5 letter F.... word was!

Clivedurdle

Que?