Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Net2004 · 05-07-2008, 11:22 AM

http://blog.beliefnet.com/blogalogue..._gods_problem/

Toto · 05-07-2008, 11:43 AM

Hi Net2004 - we generally prefer that you make some comment rather than just post a link. When I look at NT Wright's attempt to deal with the problem of theodicy, I see a lot of babbling incoherence dressed up in flowing language -

Quote:

Underneath a lot of this I resonate with a line from Bonhoeffer that has haunted me ever since I heard it as a student: that the primal sin of humanity, as in Genesis 3, is to put the knowledge of good and evil before the knowledge of God. This could just be a shrug of the shoulders (‘Who am I to understand such mysteries?’), but it could and I think should be something more and richer: a recognition that the sort of creatures we are are never going to be in a position to set a moral bar and insist that God – if there is a creator God – jump over it. It is like recognising that the telescope I have, while very good at enabling me to see the moon, Jupiter, Saturn and other glories, won’t ever let me see a black hole, or several other things that the high-energy physicists and astronomers tell me are there. The instrument in question – my creaturely and innately rebellious humanity – can’t pick up the full mysteries of God and the world. Of course, there is continuity between God’s view of good and evil and ours, or it would be chaos come again. But we are never in a position to judge God (if God there be). That’s not a pious platitude, but a rather obvious ontological reality.

But the main thing that the Bible has to offer, I still believe – and no, it isn’t a canon within the canon, but rather the narrative offered by the canon itself! – is the call of Abraham as the one through whom the problem of the human plight will be addressed and resolved, and the long playing out of that call, and the story of Abraham’s descendents, not as the explanation of why there is evil, suffering etc., but as the story of what the creator is now doing about it. I then hold the other themes within that, and I think that is a fair thing for a Jewish or Christian theologian to do. I appreciate that you don’t read the Bible like this, and that’s a larger conversation we might have some time. As I say, I think we need the big stories as well as the little details. And the details – including Amos, the Flood, Revelation – are held within that larger narrative, not isolated nuggets of philosophical statements (‘now I’m going to explain what this suffering is about’).

and on and on about how we mortals, with our puny telescopes, can never even imagine God and His Purposes, much less black holes or the 11 dimensions of string theory (I didn't read far enough along to see if he mentions string theory, but why not.)

So what would you like to discuss?

Net2004 · 05-07-2008, 12:00 PM

greetings toto

i got the link from the dunking christianity blog. i have not read the debate between ehrman and wright.

05-07-2008, 11:22 AM	#1
Net2004 Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: U.K Posts: 217	D. Ehrman vs. N. T. Wright on "Is Our Pain God's Problem?" http://blog.beliefnet.com/blogalogue..._gods_problem/

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05-07-2008, 12:00 PM	#3
Net2004 Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: U.K Posts: 217	greetings toto i got the link from the dunking christianity blog. i have not read the debate between ehrman and wright.

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