Sheshbazzar

The Bronze Age biblical "genesis is a science book, "understanding" of the science of genetics, still operates on the basis that placing stripped tree branches in view of the flocks will result in ringstraked and spotted offspring.
Real science however has now advanced to the point of being able to the identify the DNA sequences and specific chromosomes that control a living organisms characteristics, and to even genetically manipulate and mutate them to produce new or more desirable characteristics.
Genesis "science" is folk-lore, superstition, and ignorance.

bacht

Yes but that "old time religion" requires old time pseudo-science - isn't it more fun to believe that we're the centre of the universe, rather than insignificant cosmic dust?

IamJoseph

Everyone argues most of the Hebrew bible - but you are not argueing. Proving or disproving something, must be based on what is posited as historical - not that which is given as a miracle; Creationism and Creator are not imperical, historical factors and I cannot provide proof of miracles. But I can kick ass of any historical factors listed in the Hebrew writings as transcendent in comparison to any other writings. Do you have any arguements of any historical items, or only why donkeys talk and serpants walk? Do you have any issue with a concept or law in the Hebrew bible as not correct or unsustainable? Do you have any proof otherwise of anything in the Hebrew bible? :wave:

IamJoseph

Can you tell me how Genesis became the first to record two historical rivers, a mountain, the oldest and most accurate calendar in existence, introduce the day and the week, evolution, when speech began, list all the names, dod and dob's of 100s of names of generations - and every one of them being paleantologically authentic - and present them in the first alphabetical books? Can anyone today perform that feat - even with a super pc and all the world's archives? :wave:

IamJoseph

Incorrect. I showed you there is no alternative to this, and that incest is only a subjective and diminishing feature, one of degrees only. Gay is more deathremental, and this is correctly pointed out. There are many life forms which are incestous.

I pointed you to a single rain drop in a storm. No such thing as a group without a first in that group. Math #101.

IamJoseph

That was hardly my issue. Rather, that the NEW is an external impact. Let's not confuse growth and new. I understand also that an artist can take clay and make a statute which is new and did not exist before - which can be posited as how a cell mutates and creates a new product which never existed before: that would be a more reasonable arguement. However this still does not explain how an ape can produce a speech endowed human - when speech never existed in the ape nor the environment or in any other life form before. This has not been observed or explained. Its a question of math.


Are you saying that the inanimate objects from which animate objects were formed - do not exist today? If life began from water and gass - how come the water and gass is still around - is the water and gass in a state of primitive status waiting to change, or correct as it is? No, you are not saying that - but then how come genes are passed on - only once and this passing show is not seen elsewhere - where are the talking zebras from passing genes?

I do not want to make this debate silly, but what is manifest appears only what alligns with genesis - each species does elevate - but only within their species and a given criteria. IOW, we see humans manifestly becoming faster, smarter and taller humans; we see animals manifestly adapting to better forms of themselves. And by 'manifest' I mean in our midst, without the million year time factor. I showed you mathematically, that an on-going process is unaffected by time, leaving no excuse why zebras don't talk - all ToE elevation being time-based.


The issue is not what you describe. It is about how and where the new comes from. I say this is an external impact upon a purposeful and alligned point - namely it signifies an outside control source, and the genes become only an instrument in the process. If genes produce new things, and if this is responsive to an environment - it has to be an external impact - else all genes would produce new things equally - and Zebras would also have speech.

Its like a car manufacturing plant. Not all new things produced are the same - thus not an internal effect - they are purposefully new, controlled by an external source. Here, you are saying the metal decides the new steering wheel and the car horn. Does it?

aa5874

Now, prove what you wrote is true.

By whom and when was Genesis written?

You seem to think only some people in Genesis could see the moon.

IamJoseph

I never said Egypt is not older or that they never had writings. But Egypt never spoke Hebrew, or left any alphabetical books - despite being kin to Canaan, and far older than the Hebrew. Anomoly!

Quote:

We do agree on thing, Hebrews do appear to have based the 10 commandments on earlier Egyptian writings.

Especially Monotheism, no - the Hebrews worshipped stone images and the sun, no? :wave:

So the Moabites, Hittites, Canaanites and Philistines - recorded frst in the Hebrew writngs - are fiction? :wave:

I understand that two self contradicting religions sprung up as offsheets, when it was seen as Israel was dead 2000 years ago: she was and is an affront to two of the biggest religions, and this has trickled down to all science, history, math and geopraphy. Much was said that was fiction by those two religions, and the same continues today. But there is no nation able to evidence her history more manifestly than Israel [name one?]. This does not mean Israel is older or better than any other ancient nation - only that her evidence is more determinable - an amazing thing considering Israel was always exiled and dispersed, her existence threatened every day.

If these two religions created fictional placebos of Muslim Palestinians, why would there be a problem with the Egyptian stelle or the tel Dan discovery - even if they match the dates and sound like nothing else but that which is recorded in the Hebrew bible! Because the Holocaust is a myth and so is the Jerusalem temple and 9/11 - that's why! :huh:

IamJoseph

Wrong question, and says more of the questioner.

Better, as I put to you, how was Genesis able to record what none else could or can today. is a single name in Genesis dispuated as ancient to its datngs by Paleantologists - or did you find an older recording of Mount Ararat or Evolution? :wave:

No. Only that they have authentic and contemporary alligned details in their writings.

Ohene

What you said was that the first inclined descriptions of Egyptians came from Hebrews, which is completely and utterly false.
Now, why would you expect Egyptians to speak Hebrew? They were NOT semites and therefore not KIN to them. In fact that had more in common culturally and ethnically with the NUBIANS directly to their south from whence they say they originally came. Im sure you already aware that there are many more pyramids in ancient NUBIA then there are in ancient Egypt. Additionally, the slave usually learns the language of the master so its no surprise if Hebrews new Egyptian. No anomoly here!

Actually Henotheism, as in the Egyptians, but im sure you already knew they believed in a supreme creator

I never said all, you mentioned some 30 nations previously. Your list above is a bit short.

Actually Greeks and Romans sat at the feet of Egyptians.

Egypt

In fact it isnt, besides LATE writings, there isnt very much..certainly no comparison to Myans, Incas or egyptians.

Good lord

You couldn't be more wrong. Egyptians very capably left their own record of their own existence LONG before Hebrews even had a writing system!! We do agree on thing, Hebrews do appear to have based the 10 commandments on earlier Egyptian writings.




No record or archeological evidence has been found for many of these peoples outside of Hebrew writings...how odd.

Are you referring to the Steels? Come now, historians and linguist are fighting over these objects as we type. All manner of interpretations exist, its no surprise that some see 'the house of david' and have ran with it as fact. Same applies to the steele that supposedly mentions a war with the "Hebrews". Poppycock. Historically speaking Hebrew writings are later, MUCH later the Egyptian, Phonecian and Persian writings.