Freethought & Rationalism Archive

deadman_932 · 07-09-2007, 06:25 AM

I asked if you'd actually read that work, Dave. Or, are you merely parroting something you've dredged up, as Roger Pearse did earlier?

Specifically, I'd like to know the page numbers that your claims appear on so that I can check your reference.

Lucretius · 07-09-2007, 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by afdave

MORE LITERARY EVIDENCE FOR LONG LIVED PRE-FLOOD PATRIARCHS

George Stanley Faber ......

Faber also references Horace who mentions that the life of man began to be shortened from the days of Iapetus [Rather cryptic citation ... "Horat. Carm. lib. i. od. 3"]
So I think there is much evidence out there to be had. I just think that many modern academics are not looking for it. Why that is I can only speculate. Perhaps they don't want it to be true.

The reference to the Titan Iapetus (in fact it is Iapetus' Son the Titan Prometheus) in Horaces Odes would mean that you would have to believe in the Greek Titans and as a consequence the story of the Greek Gods Zeus et al I would imagine, as they "waged war" against the Titans in Classical Greek Mythology
What Horace actually says is (not MY translation by the way )

Quote:

Daring all, Prometheus play'd
His wily game, and fire to man convey'd;
Soon as fire was stolen away,
Pale Fever's stranger host and wan Decay
Swept o'er earth's polluted face,
And slow Fate quicken'd Death's once halting pace.

So it is the story of Prometheus stealing fire for the "Greek" Gods and giving it to mankind.
I assume you believe this all to be pure mythology and not religious truth and so do not see how the fact that the ancient Greeks had myths about long lived people supports a non mythical Biblical similar story

Source of translated section of Horace
http://ancienthistory.about.com/libr...race_odes1.htm

Spanky · 07-09-2007, 06:31 AM

http://www.amcbryan.btinternet.co.uk...atry-vol-1.pdf

Here is the actual book.

Now, I want everyone on this thread, EVERYONE, to tell me--along with Dave-- that I am the one with the imagination who is pretending to know things that I don't.

Great source Dave. Invaluable. Eternal. I stand corrected.

Edit: go to page 23 and read the first couple of paragraphs. Imagination I tell you. . .imagination.

The Evil One · 07-09-2007, 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by afdave

PS Evil One ... You are right about Josephus' (not) 11 sources. As we discussed earlier, they probably only amount to about 5 independent sources. But that is still significant.

(*) Which 5 are independent?
(*) How do you know they are independent?
(*) What did they say?
(*) How do you know what they said?

PS My guess is that the accounts J cites derive from three actual independent sources of this myth: Greece, Egypt, Mespotamia. However, since one of the instinctive beliefs of humankind is that "things were better in the old days", finding multiple civilisations with myths about how things were better in the old days doesn't carry much weight with me.

ETA again: you might also add the Seven Kings of Ancient Rome to the pot. Only, oops, their reigns are not impossible, just deeply unlikely. Well, apparently it's only in optics that things look smaller the farther from them you are: in mythology the opposite is true.

Roger Pearse · 07-09-2007, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadman_932

Or are you merely parroting things as roger Pearse was?

May I ask what you suppose that I was "parrotting"?

All the best,

Roger Pearse

deadman_932 · 07-09-2007, 06:57 AM

Roger: you used that phrase yourself earlier. Look at my previous post and all will be revealed to the capable reader. Perhaps you can manage that.

deadman_932 · 07-09-2007, 07:00 AM

This is Dave's "Burmese " reference:

Quote:

The Universe, we are informed, is called by the Burmas Logha, which signifies successive destruction and reproduction: because it is conceived, that the Universe, after it has been destroyed either by fire, water, or wind, is again of itself restored to its ancient form—They say, that the age of man has not always been the same with what it is at present, and that it will not continue to be the same; but that it is lengthened or shortened according to the general merit or demerit of men’s actions. After the first inhabitants, their children and grandchildren had gradually and successively shorter lives in proportion as they became less virtuous: and this gradual decrease continued, until men came to live ten years only, the duration of the life of men in their greatest state of wickedness. The children of these, considering the cause of their parents‘ short life, and dedicating themselves more to the practice of virtue, had their lives gradually lengthened. Now this successive decrement in the duration of the life of man, followed by an increase, must take place sixty four times after the reproduction of a world before that world will be again destroyed. In the present world eleven of these changes have taken place; nor will it be destroyed, until it has passed through fifty three more changes... The Burmas do not suppose, that a world is destroyed, and a new one instantaneously regenerated: but that the destruction takes up the space of an Assenchickat, that the reproduction takes up another, and that a third intervenes between the end of the old world and the beginning of the new... an almost total destruction befalls the human race. After the greater part have perished, a heavy rain falls, and sweeps away into the rivers the unburied bodies and filth. Then follows a shower of flowers and sandal wood to purify the earth; and all kinds of garments fall from above... The scanty remains of men, who had escaped from destruction, now creep out from caverns and
hiding places; and, repenting of their sins, henceforth enjoy longer lives—The Burma writings
relate, that a thousand years before the destruction of a world, a certain Nat
descends from the superior abodes. His hair is dishevelled, his countenance mournful, and his
garments black. He passes every where through the public ways and streets with piteous voice,
announcing to mankind the approaching dissolution—When it is to happen by fire, as soon as the
Nat has ceased to admonish men, a heavy rain falls from heaven, fills all the lakes, causes
torrents, and produces an abundant crop. Mankind, now filled with hope, sow seed more
plentifully: but this is the last rain; not a drop falls for a hundred thousand years, and plants
with every vegetating thing perish. Then die all animals; and, passing on to the state of Nat, are
from thence transferred to the abodes Zian or Arupa. The Nat of the Sun and Moon having now
become Zian, these luminaries are darkened and vanish. In their stead two Suns arise, which are not Nat. The one always succeeds to the other, rising when it sets; so that there is no night: and the heat consequently becomes so intense, that all the lakes and torrents are dried up, and not the smallest vestige of a tree remains upon the surface of the earth. After a long internal, a third Sun arises: then are dried up the greatest rivers. A fourth Sun succeeds: and, two being now constantly above the horizon, even the seven great lakes disappear. A fifth Sun arises, and dries up the sea. A sixth Sun rends asunder this and the other 1,010,000 earths; while from the rents are emitted smoke and fire.

deadman_932 · 07-09-2007, 07:03 AM

Wow, Dave. Real credible for your Biblical cause, there

Lucretius · 07-09-2007, 07:06 AM

Am I the only one who finds this word funny ?

Quote:

but that the destruction takes up the space of an Assenchickat,

Dave Hawkins · 07-09-2007, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadman_932

I asked if you'd actually read that work, Dave. Or, are you merely parroting something you've dredged up, as Roger Pearse did earlier?

Specifically, I'd like to know the page numbers that your claims appear on so that I can check your reference.

I gave page numbers. Did I miss one? Which reference are you missing page numbers for?

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07-09-2007, 06:25 AM	#281
deadman_932 Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Altadena, California Posts: 3,271	I asked if you'd actually read that work, Dave. Or, are you merely parroting something you've dredged up, as Roger Pearse did earlier? Specifically, I'd like to know the page numbers that your claims appear on so that I can check your reference.

07-09-2007, 06:31 AM	#283
Spanky Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: US Posts: 1,216	http://www.amcbryan.btinternet.co.uk...atry-vol-1.pdf Here is the actual book. Now, I want everyone on this thread, EVERYONE, to tell me--along with Dave-- that I am the one with the imagination who is pretending to know things that I don't. Great source Dave. Invaluable. Eternal. I stand corrected. Edit: go to page 23 and read the first couple of paragraphs. Imagination I tell you. . .imagination.

07-09-2007, 06:57 AM	#286
deadman_932 Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Altadena, California Posts: 3,271	Roger: you used that phrase yourself earlier. Look at my previous post and all will be revealed to the capable reader. Perhaps you can manage that.

07-09-2007, 07:03 AM	#288
deadman_932 Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Altadena, California Posts: 3,271	Wow, Dave. Real credible for your Biblical cause, there

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