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06-11-2007, 08:17 PM | #81 |
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The scriptural evidence clearly shows exactly how many Church Members were baptized in water by John the Baptist!
Yet ask almost any Fundamental Preacher or Catholic and they won't know! The exact number is easy, it's zero! John was dead before the founding of the church at Pentecost! Jesus said "Oh this Rock, I will (future tense) build my church, not "I have" built it! The blending of old with new is silly, yet that is what most teach, sad to say, but then most teach that God told David to have solomon build a Temple, which is far from the truth. Solomon wasn't the Son that was to build said Temple! |
06-11-2007, 10:53 PM | #82 | ||
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discounted, despite the tradition to the contrary, is that there were in fact no prenicene christian authors, and that Eusebius simply attached names and dates to a pseudo-history. I'd suggest that until this simple and straightforward politically motivated fraud can be discounted, with the appropriate provision of archeological and/or scientifically estimable evidence for the existence of anything whatsoever christian in the 300 years prenicene epoch, the tendering of an associated pseudo-history (by Eusebius, under order of Constantine) is plausible. Dont hold your breath for this evidence aa5874. |
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06-12-2007, 12:32 AM | #83 | ||
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Irenaeus ca. 180 knows of 4 and only 4, and the idea of more is incredible to him. He has apostolic contacts, of course. Tertullian ca. 200 is working with much the same NT as we are. I'm not sure that second century fathers major on the bible alone in this way anyway -- they consider it inspired, but they also have oral tradition of only a generation or so in their own churches as to what the apostolic message was. Does anyone in antiquity worry about this one at all? If not, I think this tends to be a sign of anachronism; i.e. that the argument has implicit assumptions not relevant to the question? Incidentally the idea that the apocrypha were only removed at Nicaea is a legend, first recorded in the 9th century in the Vetus Synodicon (details here, at the end). I got fed up with all the fairy-stories about Nicaea a few years back. They're never referenced to the primary sources, after all. So I went and looked up every contemporary account (say up to a century after) of the Council. That page has the details so everyone can do it themselves and see. (Gelasius of Cyzicus isn't on there, since no English translation exists, but I did look at it). Whatever our views, surely we all want to get the raw facts right? All the best, Roger Pearse |
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06-12-2007, 03:10 PM | #84 | |
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06-12-2007, 03:58 PM | #85 | |
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If the Bible were not the world's best-seller, then obviously some other book would be. Are you prepared to say that whatever other book that might have been, it would necessarily have been an organic whole like nothing else in the universe? |
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06-12-2007, 04:23 PM | #86 | |||
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[QUOTE=Doug Shaver;4530843]
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06-13-2007, 12:12 AM | #87 | |||
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All the best, Roger Pearse |
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06-13-2007, 12:17 AM | #88 | |
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The emperor Julian was well versed in other religions and was arguably the most well read and studious Roman emperor. What do you think he meant when he wrote, c.362 CE: It is, I think, expedient to set forth to all mankind |
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06-13-2007, 12:25 AM | #89 | |
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But that is about the limit of things. And it certainly does not imply that things recorded in H.E. are, in fact, ancient historical facts. |
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06-13-2007, 01:49 AM | #90 |
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