Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Jack Nelson · 09-08-2003, 06:32 PM

I have a friend at work who is "Born Again" He told me that Darwin considered Africian's one step above the apes.

I do remember reading somewhere that Charles Darwin was against the colonalism in the 19th Century and was against slavery. I told him this and he laughed at me.

Is there a website that I can send him that tell's the truth about Darwin.

Thank you.

pz · 09-08-2003, 06:44 PM

Here's a nice set of quotations straight from Darwin.

One sample:

Quote:

"I have watched how steadily the general feeling, as shown at elections,
has been rising against Slavery. What a proud thing for England, if she is
the first European nation which utterly abolish is it. I was told before
leaving England, that after living in slave countries: all my options would
be altered; the only alteration I am aware of is forming a much higher
estimate of the Negros character. It is impossible to see a negro & not
feel kindly toward him; such cheerful, open honest expressions & such fine
muscular bodies; I never saw any of the diminutive Portuguese with their
murderous countenances, without almost wishing for Brazil to follow the
example of Haiti; & considering the enormous healthy looking black
population, it will be wonderful if at some future day it does not take
place." -- Charles Darwin to Catherine Darwin (May 22 - July 14 1833) The
Correspondence of Charles Darwin Vol. 1 1821-1836 (1985), pp. 312-313

Dr.GH · 09-08-2003, 06:50 PM

You can find the published works here:

http://www.literature.org/authors/darwin-charles/

Darwin on Race and eugenics
http://home.att.net/~troybritain/art...in_on_race.htm

Gregg · 09-08-2003, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jack Nelson
I have a friend at work who is "Born Again" He told me that Darwin considered Africian's one step above the apes.

I do remember reading somewhere that Charles Darwin was against the colonalism in the 19th Century and was against slavery. I told him this and he laughed at me.

Is there a website that I can send him that tell's the truth about Darwin.

Thank you.

Oughtta just tell him that even if Darwin WAS a racist (which he probably wasn't, at least not according to the standards of his day), it doesn't mean a darn thing for his theory, which stands or falls according to the evidence, not according to Darwin's character.

Gregg

Jack Nelson · 09-08-2003, 07:23 PM

Thanks pz and DR GH. I already printed them out and will show him during during coffee break tomorrow and will give him a few of my choice words. Also, DR GH you're almost a neighbor of mine.
Dana Point is just a few miles down the freeway from Tustin. I did not expect an answer to this from an Orange County person.
Thanks again.

Valentine Pontifex · 09-08-2003, 07:52 PM

Darwin was a racist by 2003 standards. But then again it would be VERY hard to find significant figures of Darwin's time that were not.

Lincoln was a racist as well. I don't see anyone suggesting that we remove his picture form the penny or the $5 note because of it.

Darwin was a member of the society in which he lived. It is an impossibly high standard to think that he or anyone else could have held 21st century views on every subject. And as others have pointed out, his "racism" was fairly mild next to the standards of the times in which he lived.

wade-w · 09-08-2003, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gregg
Oughtta just tell him that even if Darwin WAS a racist (which he probably wasn't, at least not according to the standards of his day), it doesn't mean a darn thing for his theory, which stands or falls according to the evidence, not according to Darwin's character.

Exactly. Trying to refute the theory of evolution by claiming that Darwin was a racist is a perfect example of a real ad hominem.

Queen of Swords · 09-08-2003, 11:00 PM

Darwin wasn't the one saying that

1. he was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel

2. it wasn't right to take the children's food and throw it to the dogs, when a gentile woman asked him to heal her sick daughter.

And has this creationist realized how viciously racist the Old Testament god is? Not that this will clear Darwin of any charges, just that I hate hypocrisy.

lpetrich · 09-09-2003, 01:40 AM

Simply consider the story of the curse of Ham. When Noah got drunk and accidentally exposed himself, Ham got an eyeful and invited his brothers Shem and Japheth to look. Those brothers covered Noah up, being careful not to look, however. And when Noah found out about this, he cursed Ham and his offspring, who were to be in servitude to the offspring of Shem and Japheth.

And consider the allegedly incestuous origin of the Ammonites and the Moabites -- Lot's daughters made him drunk and had sex with him in that state, thus producing the ancestors of those ethnic groups.

And the genocide commanded and allegedly practiced in several places. The people already living in the Promised Land were to be exterminated without mercy, a sort of Final Solution of the Canaanite Question.

Will I Am · 09-09-2003, 01:50 AM

Darwin was a racist by 2003 standards.

Nearly everyone still is a racist by 2003 standards.

The most remarkable thing about Mr. Darwin was how unremarkable he was.

It's a testement to the power of the evidence that even Darwin, a trained priest of no particular intelligence, was forced to face the apparent truth.

(Ok, perhaps he had a measure of remarkable bravery).

09-08-2003, 06:32 PM	#1
Jack Nelson Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Southern California Posts: 11	Charles Darwin I have a friend at work who is "Born Again" He told me that Darwin considered Africian's one step above the apes. I do remember reading somewhere that Charles Darwin was against the colonalism in the 19th Century and was against slavery. I told him this and he laughed at me. Is there a website that I can send him that tell's the truth about Darwin. Thank you.

09-08-2003, 11:00 PM	#8
Queen of Swords Contributor Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Canada. Finally. Posts: 10,155	Re: Re: Re: Charles Darwin Darwin wasn't the one saying that 1. he was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel 2. it wasn't right to take the children's food and throw it to the dogs, when a gentile woman asked him to heal her sick daughter. And has this creationist realized how viciously racist the Old Testament god is? Not that this will clear Darwin of any charges, just that I hate hypocrisy.

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09-08-2003, 06:50 PM	#3
Dr.GH Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Dana Point, Ca, USA Posts: 2,115	You can find the published works here: http://www.literature.org/authors/darwin-charles/ Darwin on Race and eugenics http://home.att.net/~troybritain/art...in_on_race.htm

09-08-2003, 07:23 PM	#5
Jack Nelson Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Southern California Posts: 11	Thanks pz and DR GH. I already printed them out and will show him during during coffee break tomorrow and will give him a few of my choice words. Also, DR GH you're almost a neighbor of mine. Dana Point is just a few miles down the freeway from Tustin. I did not expect an answer to this from an Orange County person. Thanks again.

09-08-2003, 07:52 PM	#6
Valentine Pontifex Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Orion Arm of the Milky Way Galaxy Posts: 3,092	Darwin was a racist by 2003 standards. But then again it would be VERY hard to find significant figures of Darwin's time that were not. Lincoln was a racist as well. I don't see anyone suggesting that we remove his picture form the penny or the $5 note because of it. Darwin was a member of the society in which he lived. It is an impossibly high standard to think that he or anyone else could have held 21st century views on every subject. And as others have pointed out, his "racism" was fairly mild next to the standards of the times in which he lived.

09-09-2003, 01:40 AM	#9
lpetrich Contributor Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Lebanon, OR, USA Posts: 16,829	Simply consider the story of the curse of Ham. When Noah got drunk and accidentally exposed himself, Ham got an eyeful and invited his brothers Shem and Japheth to look. Those brothers covered Noah up, being careful not to look, however. And when Noah found out about this, he cursed Ham and his offspring, who were to be in servitude to the offspring of Shem and Japheth. And consider the allegedly incestuous origin of the Ammonites and the Moabites -- Lot's daughters made him drunk and had sex with him in that state, thus producing the ancestors of those ethnic groups. And the genocide commanded and allegedly practiced in several places. The people already living in the Promised Land were to be exterminated without mercy, a sort of Final Solution of the Canaanite Question.

09-09-2003, 01:50 AM	#10
Will I Am Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: The Edge. Posts: 582	Darwin was a racist by 2003 standards. Nearly everyone still is a racist by 2003 standards. The most remarkable thing about Mr. Darwin was how unremarkable he was. It's a testement to the power of the evidence that even Darwin, a trained priest of no particular intelligence, was forced to face the apparent truth. (Ok, perhaps he had a measure of remarkable bravery).

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