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Old 07-18-2008, 02:26 AM   #41
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The scientific method will be abandoned or it will stop by causing the extinction of the species that utilises it.
First off, I think you should realise that scientific method is essentially induction. It has some additional checks and balances - more formal language, peer review - in order to counteract the vagaries of communication. But basically it is an inductive learning algorithm that starts from an arbitrary state and iterates convergently on reality using an error measure based on the difference between hypothesis and reality.

I would suggest, then, that if you were to be serious about ditching the scientific method, then you really ought to stop using your brain, because being a learning agent, it functions in exactly that way - constructs a model of the world, forms hypotheses based on that model, and corrects that model based on the results of comparison. So: stop using computers, lock yourself in a dark room, and try not to think about anything. If you're serious, that is. And if you're not, then please desist from posting,

Furthermore: even allowing you some benefit of the doubt, your conflation of science (a methodology based on forming approximating models of the universe and using new information to adapt those models) and the products of science (technology) is a logical fallacy, and renders your argument invalid.
The assumption here is that there is a reality upon which the scientific method is gnawing away at. The distinction between science and the products of science are more than a little blurred by the technological devices science utilises. I would suggest the seperation of Chruch and State in this instance is more than a little invalid based on the patenting of genes for instance and the ubiqitous use of laser technology? I'm astounded there is someone here who actually knows the modus operendi of the brain. I certainly will not ask such a knowledgeable poster to desist, indeed please qualify your knowledge in this instance?
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Old 07-18-2008, 02:32 AM   #42
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The assumption here is that there is a reality upon which the scientific method is gnawing away at.
Yes. Do you disagree? Are you now going to offer us solipsism - the inevitable cul-de-sac end of what you are suggesting - as the most viable ontology to us? And by "us", I mean "you", because after all, you're all there is.

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The distinction between science and the products of science are more than a little blurred by the technological devices science utilises. I would suggest the seperation of Chruch and State in this instance is more than a little invalid based on the patenting of genes for instance and the ubiqitous use of laser technology?
WTF?

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I'm astounded there is someone here who actually knows the modus operendi of the brain. I certainly will not ask such a knowledgeable poster to desist, indeed please qualify your knowledge in this instance?
Just because we don't know everything about the brain doesn't mean we know nothing. That's another logical fallacy you're waving in our faces.
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Old 07-18-2008, 02:44 AM   #43
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The scientific method appears fine at the beginning. But at some point it must work on the unretrievable experience and at that point it becomes impossible to know what it is doing. There is the assumption that the earth is reality but this keyboard is in a room. I don't know how many earths it is on and I do not know how they vary or interrelate - the earth like the brain yields poor results from unsound assumptions. The scientific method is a poormans cart & horse but the rider carries the plaguedead. He must abandon this or perish from the plague himself....
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Old 07-18-2008, 02:55 AM   #44
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But at some point it must work on the unretrievable experience
I say again: WTF?

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There is the assumption that the earth is reality
Do you disagree? Again, if you don't, you will end up in solipsistic nothingness.

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but this keyboard is in a room.
Do you disagree?

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I don't know how many earths it is on and I do not know how they vary or interrelate - the earth like the brain yields poor results from unsound assumptions.
Humans start to get into trouble when they fail to be able to distinguish fantasy from reality. If you think there's more than one earth, by all means believe so. Few others will believe you, however. Making statements about the world without checking whether they are actually so is either delusion or lying, neither of which I'd be happy to entertain.

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The scientific method is a poormans cart & horse but the rider carries the plaguedead. He must abandon this or perish from the plague himself....
Then stop using your brain. Lock yourself in that dark room and do not think about anything.
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Old 07-18-2008, 03:05 AM   #45
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Making statements about the world without checking the soundness of your instruments or base assumptions is to potentially mix reality and delusion in a unhealthy cocktail. However if your instruments and assumptions are inherently untestable then you have to drop the method altogther before you find yourself walking off a cliff. The brain is a dark room and to be human is to be locked in it, where are you?
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Old 07-18-2008, 03:12 AM   #46
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However if your instruments and assumptions are inherently untestable then you have to drop the method altogther before you find yourself walking off a cliff.
Find yourself walking off cliffs much? I will take from the fact that you are here posting that you don't. Your instruments' ability to confer accurate models have been honed tested to (literally) destruction by billions of years of evolution. Any learning agent (such as brains, science, or evolution) depends upon an error measure; a faulty error measure produces duff instruments that walk off cliffs. A good error measure provides convergence to a decent approximation of reality. Ergo, the fact that you're here confirms the hypothesis that the error metric is good enough for the purpose.
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Old 07-18-2008, 07:40 AM   #47
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Hail to fellow Oxymoron, who appears to be attempting the impossible!
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Old 07-18-2008, 07:55 AM   #48
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I've explained as best I can. There appears to be enough information in my content.
There's words in your content, but that doesn't necessarily translate to there being information in them. You're using a lot of bad analogies that don't appear to be making any points and you're going from premises to conclusions without detailing the steps inbetween.

You might want to step back, take a breath and start from the beginning again so that people can understand what you're getting at.
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Old 07-18-2008, 09:00 AM   #49
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Asimov, bless his emotional jump into atheism, was right about knowledge becoming more refined. That was mathematics not science increasing. You see I often look at this computer and think is it a product of science - and I realise it's case is and its circuits are - they are quite questionable in my honest opinion. But this computer is at heart a product of a increase in mathematical knowledge, not that it matters to some?
You're right. The only way science should be done is through a method that lacks the reckless blunders derived from ignorance and chance apparent in our obviously flawed scientific method. We must only investigate aspects of the universe in the most pure ways possible--by mathematics. Screw all achievements we've made in medical science. Until we can break it down into numbers, we run the .01% risk of screwing up and finding ourselves with an icky pie no one wants to eat, except all of those morons risking their lives just so they can cure their terminal cancer.[/sarcasam]
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Old 07-18-2008, 11:23 AM   #50
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There is no new method. There is only abandondment or extinction resulting from use of the scientific method. Those who try to find a new way or return to religion are doomed. All that can be done is to abandon the scientific method. There is no replacement and the population will still undergo a radical decline. It will not recover if science is utilised in the aftermath. Extinction will be complete.
This appears to be an excessively wordy way of saying "we're fucked no matter what we do."
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