Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Sheshbazzar · 01-30-2013, 08:51 PM

If the damned pagan Greek derived word 'therapeutae' wasn't used, there wouldn't be anything to argue over it.

Philo corrupted his Hebrew heritage by polluting it, and his writings with popular pagan Greek idioms.

Many still do.

aa5874 · 01-30-2013, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

I went back and reread it, and it is confused. The confusion persisted until enough material was produced to show that Philo used the term Therapeutae to refer to priests in the Jewish Temple, and that the term is generic. There was also a confusing side issue of whether the text was written by Philo, which turned out to lead nowhere. Once you realize this, the OP becomes rather pointless. There is just no reason to see Philo's Therapeutae as anything other than Jewish, and no reason that they would have any connection to pagan groups also known as therapeutae...

Again, it is actually the opposite. There is NO reason whatsoever to think the Therapeutae were Jews or of Jewish origin.

Philo would have stated the Therapeutae were Jews or of Jewish origin just as he did with the Esennes. He never did.

Quote:

According to Philo, the Therapeutae were widely distributed in the Ancient world, among the Greeks and beyond in the non-Greek world of the "Barbarians", with one of their major gathering points being in Alexandria, in the area of the Lake Mareotis:

"Now this class of persons may be met with in many places, for it was fitting that both Greece and the country of the barbarians should partake of whatever is perfectly good; and there is the greatest number of such men in Egypt, in every one of the districts, or nomes, as they are called, and especially around Alexandria; and from all quarters those who are the best of these therapeutae proceed on their pilgrimage to some most suitable place as if it were their country, which is beyond the Maereotic...

The Therapeutae were NEVER identified as a sect of Jews in writings of antiquity and an Apologetic writer claimed the Therapeutae were Christians of the Jesus cult which would indicate or imply that they were from all over the Roman Empire which may include Rome, Corinth, Ephesus, Philippi, Thesalonica, Galatia and Colosse or any where in Asia.

mountainman · 01-30-2013, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainman

(1) Constantine c.324/325 destroyed the larger Asclepian temples and prohibited the use of all temples (there is supporting evidence for this), effectively disbanding the therapeutae of Asclepius (along with any services for all other pagan cults).

Christian mobs went around destroying pagan temples ....

You are referring to the continuing destruction of temples by Christian mobs in the later 4th and 5th century. Prior to Nicaea it was Constantine who gave the orders for the major temples to be destroyed, and this destruction was conducted by his army. About the Asclepius temple at Aegae see Eus VC 3.56-58; SS HE 1.18; Zonaras HE 13.12.30-34; Soz HE 2.5 "This temple was most highly honored and reverenced by the ancients" .

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

... to prove to the pagans that their gods were powerless.

Eusebius sets the precedent for furnishing this proof that the pagan gods no longer had any power.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eusebius

Our emperor's pious deeds, however, had in them nothing fabulous or feigned; but by virtue of the manifested power of his Saviour, this temple as well as others was so utterly overthrown, that not a vestige of the former follies was left behind.

Jesus had more power that Asclepius or Apollo or Venus or a myriad other pagan gods put together.

Why is this so? Because the Emperor (and thus the Roman Army) was on the side of Jesus.

Go Jesus !

I repeat that there would may have been thousands of pagan therapeutae serving in these massive temples.

Quote:

The Pachomian monastery is close to the Nag Hammadi library, but not so close that you can assume that they were connected.

The Nag Hammadi Library in English (or via: amazon.co.uk) By James McConkey Robinson, Richard Smith at p. 31, notes that

part of the Pachomias library has been unearthed, and it is different from the Nag Hammadi.

I have tried without success to view p.31.
Are you able to cite the bit here.

AFAIK the NHC (Nag Hammadi Codices) are assumed by a consensus to have been manufactured and bound at the nearby Pachomian monastic settlement. Its reasonably obvious that the NHC may have at one stage been part of Pachomius library, but it is generally conjectured that the books became "too hot" to keep - on account of searches being conducted by the Canonical Authorities with assistance from the Imperial Army. The books were taken from the library and secreted in the earth - some books being bound securely in water proof leather bindings.

stephan huller · 01-30-2013, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Philo would have stated the Therapeutae were Jews or of Jewish origin just as he did with the Esennes. He never did.

So because Philo never says he's Jewish, he's not Jewish.

Sheshbazzar · 01-30-2013, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar

If the damned pagan Greek derived word 'therapeutae' wasn't used, there wouldn't be anything to argue over it.

Philo corrupted his Hebrew heritage by polluting it, and his writings with popular pagan Greek idioms.

Many still do.

Although most, in being indocrinated by into unquestionily accepting Church supplied Hellenistic terminology are not familiar with the Hebrew term being rendered by the GREEK θεραπεύω 'therapeuō'.
The Scriptural Hebrew term is הרפאים 'ha'rapha'eem' > literally 'the healing ones'.
being the plural form of רפא 'rapha' > 'to heal'. Familiar in the form of the Hebrew name 'Raphael' > 'El heals'.

We either learn the Hebrew terminology, or by default are indocrinated into Church promoted 'Hellenisim' and the employment of HER popular but faulty pagan Greek words. (which SHE will use to screw us over)

stephan huller · 01-30-2013, 11:18 PM

Oh my God. How long do we have to keep going round and round, over and over the same point and people STILL don't get it. The principle meaning of therapeuo is not 'to heal' but 'to attend' 'to serve.' Fuck. This is so frustrating. Since the word does not show up in the LXX it is hard to know the exact Hebrew equivalent.

mountainman · 01-30-2013, 11:26 PM

Didn't you read the OP?

See also therapeutic

Quote:

ther·a·peu·tic (thr-pytk) also ther·a·peu·ti·cal (-t-kl)
adj.

1. Having or exhibiting healing powers: a therapeutic agent; therapeutic exercises.

2. Of or relating to the medical treatment of a disease or condition.

[New Latin therapeuticus, from Greek therapeutikos, from therapeuts, one who administers, from therapeuein, to serve, administer treatment, from theraps, therap-, attendant; see therapy.]

mountainman · 01-30-2013, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephan huller

Oh my God. How long do we have to keep going round and round, over and over the same point and people STILL don't get it. The principle meaning of therapeuo is not 'to heal' but 'to attend' 'to serve.' Fuck. This is so frustrating. Since the word does not show up in the LXX it is hard to know the exact Hebrew equivalent.

WTF? The word shows up 44 times in the New Testament.

In 38 occurrences it is translated as 'heal'.
In 5 occurrences it is translated as 'cure'.
In 1 occurrence it is translated as 'worship'.

Strong's G2323

therapeuō

θεραπεύω

Part of Speech: verb

Quote:

Outline of Biblical Usage

1) to serve, do service

2) to heal, cure, restore to health

Authorized Version (KJV) Translation Count — Total: 44

AV — heal 38, cure 5, worship 1

Strong's Number G2323 matches the Greek θεραπεύω (therapeuō),
which occurs 44 times in 43 verses in the Greek concordance of the KJV

Sheshbazzar · 01-30-2013, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephan huller

Oh my God. How long do we have to keep going round and round, over and over the same point and people STILL don't get it. The principle meaning of therapeuo is not 'to heal' but 'to attend' 'to serve.' Fuck. This is so frustrating. Since the word does not show up in the LXX it is hard to know the exact Hebrew equivalent.

The Scriptural Hebrew term הרפאים also has the meaning of 'the ones attending to' and is used in that sense in Gen 50:2.

Quote:

ויצו יוסף את־עבדיו את־הרפאים לחנט את־אביו ויחנטו הרפאים את־ישראל׃

The Egyptian הרפאים -embalmers- of Jacob were not healing him, but were attending to a task.

You like to pretend that the Hebrews were unable to communicate until they were given pagan Greek words via the LXX to express themselves with.

stephan huller · 01-31-2013, 12:02 AM

Quote:

You like to pretend that the Hebrews were unable to communicate until they were given pagan Greek words via the LXX to express themselve with.

Honestly. I don't what to do with you. You know there were Jews who spoke German, English, Polish. Words like shmuck, shmo and the like they aren't Hebrew, right? Jews just pick up language wherever they have been. The word synagogue is Greek but it has been come part of the Jewish experience. I think half the people at this forum are crazy or losers or both. What exactly are you disagreeing with? That because therapeutai is Greek it is somehow 'dishonest' or 'corrupt'?

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

01-30-2013, 08:51 PM	#451
Sheshbazzar Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: On the path of knowledge Posts: 8,889	If the damned pagan Greek derived word 'therapeutae' wasn't used, there wouldn't be anything to argue over it. Philo corrupted his Hebrew heritage by polluting it, and his writings with popular pagan Greek idioms. Many still do.

01-30-2013, 11:18 PM	#456
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	Oh my God. How long do we have to keep going round and round, over and over the same point and people STILL don't get it. The principle meaning of therapeuo is not 'to heal' but 'to attend' 'to serve.' Fuck. This is so frustrating. Since the word does not show up in the LXX it is hard to know the exact Hebrew equivalent.

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.