Originally Posted by James The Least

As we all know, there is a large gap between what NT scholars like LeDonne write and think about the historical Jesus, and what the American church-going public thinks about the historical Jesus. The latter isn't even aware of the most basic problems and issues of the subject, and want to continue on like it's 1700 and two hundred years of serious critical scholarship just doesn't exist. Jesus is God, the Bible is God's Word, and the purpose of theology is to reinforce those concepts, not ask questions that might cause doubt.

Originally Posted by sotto voce

If the US public thought that two hundred years of comment was serious critical scholarship, they'd drop their fake religion with alacrity.

Originally Posted by Gibbon

Chapter 15: The progress of the Christian religion,
and the sentiments, manners, numbers, and condition of the primitive Christians.


A CANDID but rational inquiry into the progress and establishment of Christianity may be considered as a very essential part of the history of the Roman empire. While that great body was invaded by open violence, or undermined by slow decay, a pure and humble religion gently insinuated itself into the minds of men, grew up in silence and obscurity, derived new vigour from opposition, and finally erected the triumphant banner of the Cross on the ruins of the Capitol. Nor was the influence of Christianity confined to the period or to the limits of the Roman empire. After a revolution of thirteen or fourteen centuries, that religion is still professed by the nations of Europe, the most distinguished portion of human kind in arts and learning as well as in arms. By the industry and zeal of the Europeans it has been widely diffused to the most distant shores of Asia and Africa; and by the means of their colonies has been firmly established from Canada to Chili, in a world unknown to the ancients.

But this inquiry, however useful or entertaining, is attended with two peculiar difficulties. The scanty and suspicious materials of ecclesiastical history seldom enable us to dispel the dark cloud that hangs over the first age of the church. The great law of impartiality too often obliges us to reveal the imperfections of the uninspired teachers and believers of the Gospel; and, to a careless observer, their faults may seem to cast a shade on the faith which they professed. But the scandal of the pious Christian, and the fallacious triumph of the Infidel, should cease as soon as they recollect not only by whom, but likewise to whom, the Divine Revelation was given.

The theologian may indulge the pleasing task of describing Religion as she descended from Heaven, arrayed in her native purity. A more melancholy duty is imposed on the historian. He must discover the inevitable mixture of error and corruption which she contracted in long residence upon earth, among a weak and degenerate race of beings. Our curiosity is naturally prompted to inquire by what means the Christian faith obtained so remarkable a victory over the established religions of the earth. To this inquiry an obvious but unsatisfactory answer may be returned; that it was owing to the convincing evidence of the doctrine itself, and to the ruling providence of its great Author. But as truth and reason seldom find so favourable a reception in the world, and as the wisdom of Providence frequently condescends to use the passions of the human heart, and the general circumstances of mankind, as instruments to execute its purpose, we may still be permitted, though with becoming submission,

to ask, not indeed what were the first,
but what were the secondary causes
of the rapid growth of the Christian church?


It will, perhaps, appear that it was most effectually favoured and assisted by the five following causes:

I. The inflexible, and, if we may use the expression, the intolerant zeal of the Christians, derived, it is true, from the Jewish religion, but purified from the narrow and unsocial spirit which, instead of inviting, had deterred the Gentiles from embracing the law of Moses.

II. The doctrine of a future life, improved by every additional circumstance which could give weight and efficacy to that important truth.

III.The miraculous powers ascribed to the primitive church.

IV. The pure and austere morals of the Christians.

V. The union and discipline of the Christian republic, which gradually formed an independent and increasing state in the heart of the Roman empire.

Originally Posted by mountainman

If the [pick any country] public thought

Originally Posted by sotto voce

All Western countries bar the USA dropped their public thought, their public religious hypocrisy, long ago. They grew up. Certain Americans disingenuously like to point out the 'paganism' of Europe. One cannot possess cake, and eat thereof.

The USA remains the world's unique dinosaur, steeped in medievalist works-salvation and crazy cultery. Why? Because people there believe that Jesus died outside Jerusalem in the early first century. Nor Ehrman, nor Hitchens, nor Harris, nor Spong, nor Pagels, nor anyone makes the smallest impression on that perception.

Originally Posted by James The Least

No. People in the USA "believe" in Protestant supernaturalism because it is socially advantageous

Originally Posted by James The Least

No. People in the USA "believe" in Protestant supernaturalism because it is socially advantageous -- it's OK to be ignorant and bigoted as long as one has the excuse that God/Jesus is on their side. They don't know or care anything about the supposed "historic" Jesus.

Originally Posted by sotto voce

Society is always based on economy. It's socially advantageous because it is economically advantageous. It is economically advantageous because those who have the most economic influence are in no doubt that Christianity is a potent force. It is a potent force because people believe it, are compelled by it, even though they don't actually welcome it. So no amount of arguments of Ehrman, Hitchens, Harris, Spong, Pagels or a thousand others like them is going to change it. Those arguments will bounce away like flies off a diesel train, as they have done heretofore.

Originally Posted by MrMacSon

Society might have been based on 'economy' more in the past that it is today