Freethought & Rationalism Archive

jonasaberg · 01-25-2008, 01:16 AM

I voted maybe.
Just establishing a starting point is pretty difficult; what exactly do we mean by "Jesus"?
Miracle worker? That falls under supernatural and I certainly don't believ in that so the answer would be no.

However, is it possible that *some* guy was the founder of christianity? What do we mean by that then? Christianity based on the ideas of such a person? Sure, I guess that's possible but at that point, what do we really have left? Some guy. The question would then become "did some guy exist?". In my opinion, we need a bit more info about what we are defining before one can answer the question whether he existed or not.
Unfortunately, when we peel away the supernatural and mythological aspects about the Jesus character we are left with extremely little info about who it is we are attempting to determine whether he existed or not.

French Prometheus · 01-25-2008, 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by makerowner

I voted maybe. I don't think there's enough evidence to say 'yes', but I also don't think that any other theory put forward so far explains the evidence better. He was probably a preacher/exorcist/faith healer in the early 1st century who antagonized the Jewish authorities and may have associated with rebel movements and was executed as a "rabble-rouser".

My views too.

Clivedurdle · 01-25-2008, 03:27 AM

Haven't answered the question, but very probably no!

Quote:

It coulda bin Jesus

But the Logos idea, the magical idea - at the NAME of Jesus - the propensity for story telling, the clear mythological elements, the clear historic record of the history of the Church that consistently speaks of Christ in the heavens with God, the point of the story being about reconciling humans with God - new heaven and earth, the pre existing motifs from various cultures, the political situation.

Do they not add up to a classic formulation of a saviour figure, as continually repeated throughout history, including Hercules and Spiderman?

On who started Xianity, not sure there is any need for a big bang, but an amalgamation, an evolution of thoughts occurred. Constantine and Eusebius arguably did have most influence in defining this phenomenon.

Splarnst · 01-25-2008, 03:43 AM

I voted maybe because I don't have enough evidence to decide.

spin · 01-25-2008, 04:35 AM

For those "yes" and those "no" voters, how many of you would be definite about

Robin_Hood? There's a lot of legendary and then fictional material about Robin Hood, but did he, or did he not, exist? Is the evidence for Jesus any better or worse than his?

spin

JEST2ASK · 01-25-2008, 04:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reniaa

I voted yes because what do you people need as evidence that someone existed before you were born, Do you guys need a photo? photo's haven't been around that long, how do we know any historical figures exist? by what is written about them! is my answer and in this sense jesus adequately fullfills our requirements..what proof would you expect of alexander the great or hanibal or any of our other historical figures exept what we know is written of them?
You guys doubt his existence despite the testimonies of not just of the gospels but lots of other ancient historians too because you want too disbelieve rather than from lack of evidence. I would respect people more if they argued him being a mortal man as apposed to a missiah etc rather than his existance, when you consider how many ancient scholars give testimony to his existence.

Hello Reniaa,

What is your take on Mountainman's post (Arius, Julian and Nestorius say "FICTION")

I voted maybe ... due mostly because ... I think actual physical / historical evidence is lacking and that there really is no definate (undisputed) details concerning the man / person. I am somewhat curious just what ancient scholars provide any information regarding the person outside of scripture. :huh:

DancesWithCoffeeCups · 01-25-2008, 04:52 AM

I went with maybe as well. There apparently were a number of jeebus-types around that time period. The evidence however is sketchy at best. If I include the bible then I'd actually lean more towards no since that work is clearly a work of fiction. Just the same . . maybe is good enough.

Clivedurdle · 01-25-2008, 04:57 AM

Robin Hood existed - I have been to Little John's Grave, and Sherwood Forest.

Quote:

The supposed grave of Little John can be found in Hathersage, also in the Peak District.

:devil1:

fanucon · 01-25-2008, 05:10 AM

Paul Bunyan has a grave too.

I beleive Jesus was a real person, but the storys of his works are most likely blown way out of proportion

ph2ter · 01-25-2008, 05:48 AM

I believe Jesus is a fictional character contructed from Jewish scripture and the pagan annual rebirth gods which were the sons of the topmost pagan gods.

View Poll Results: Was Jesus ever an actual human being?
Yes	45	20.93%
No	78	36.28%
Maybe	84	39.07%
Other	8	3.72%
Voters: 215. You may not vote on this poll

01-25-2008, 04:35 AM	#15
spin Contributor Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: nowhere Posts: 15,747	Consistency For those "yes" and those "no" voters, how many of you would be definite about Robin_Hood? There's a lot of legendary and then fictional material about Robin Hood, but did he, or did he not, exist? Is the evidence for Jesus any better or worse than his? spin

01-25-2008, 05:48 AM	#20
ph2ter Regular Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Europe Posts: 219	... I believe Jesus is a fictional character contructed from Jewish scripture and the pagan annual rebirth gods which were the sons of the topmost pagan gods.

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01-25-2008, 01:16 AM	#11
jonasaberg Regular Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Vasa, Finland Posts: 102	I voted maybe. Just establishing a starting point is pretty difficult; what exactly do we mean by "Jesus"? Miracle worker? That falls under supernatural and I certainly don't believ in that so the answer would be no. However, is it possible that some guy was the founder of christianity? What do we mean by that then? Christianity based on the ideas of such a person? Sure, I guess that's possible but at that point, what do we really have left? Some guy. The question would then become "did some guy exist?". In my opinion, we need a bit more info about what we are defining before one can answer the question whether he existed or not. Unfortunately, when we peel away the supernatural and mythological aspects about the Jesus character we are left with extremely little info about who it is we are attempting to determine whether he existed or not.

01-25-2008, 03:43 AM	#14
Splarnst Contributor Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Jacksonville, Florida Posts: 13,161	I voted maybe because I don't have enough evidence to decide.

01-25-2008, 04:52 AM	#17
DancesWithCoffeeCups Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Pacific Northwest Posts: 8,077	I went with maybe as well. There apparently were a number of jeebus-types around that time period. The evidence however is sketchy at best. If I include the bible then I'd actually lean more towards no since that work is clearly a work of fiction. Just the same . . maybe is good enough.

01-25-2008, 05:10 AM	#19
fanucon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Midwest Minnesota Posts: 721	Paul Bunyan has a grave too. I beleive Jesus was a real person, but the storys of his works are most likely blown way out of proportion

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