Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Clivedurdle · 04-15-2013, 05:48 AM

Amazon is very clear it is not the same person.

The first section below is not Faraday

Quote:

1883. Because in this age, the so-called Christian religion claims to have the supreme jurisdiction over the minds of mortals in all things pertaining to spiritual truth, I have invited the spirits who lived prior to, and after the advent of the Christian religion, to unravel the mystery which surrounds its origin. Many of their statements were new to me and will be new to the world. That they are truthful I have no doubt although some of them may have been somewhat modified by translation. I have given them as they were given to me and hope they may aid minds in earth life to form a correct opinion as to the value of the religion which has supplanted ancient Greek and Roman paganism in the home of its nativity.

Quote:

When you read the book, you don't know if it was written by Faraday the scientist or someone else with the same name. Any way, the book is not what you will expect from the title, a scientific analysis about Christianism, but a collection of comments of "spirits" obtained by mean of a medium in some spiritism sessions. So, it has not a single scientific proof of what the title says (unfortunately).

By Winston Churchill
Format:Paperback
I am mystified about the author. The book says it was written in 1882/3. Michael Faraday, the great scientist died in about 1867. This book slyly refers to the author's work in chemistry & philosophy. Is it the same man? The title does not mention a scientific refutation of Jesus Christ, but it does a good job subjectively.

http://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Christ-F.../dp/0548004307

Clivedurdle · 04-15-2013, 05:55 AM

But this does raise interesting questions about the reactions to those dreadful hammers in the late nineteenth century.

Is it possible someone wrote a spoof send up of xianity, dressing up strong views in spiritualist language? I can't see there was a need for it - JG Frazer was quite damning directly, or did he write this?

Quote:

Yet The Golden Bough, his study of ancient cults, rites, and myths, including their parallels in early Christianity, is still studied by modern mythographers for its detailed information.[citation needed]

The first edition, in two volumes, was published in 1890. The third edition was finished in 1915 and ran to twelve volumes, with a supplemental thirteenth volume added in 1936. He published a single-volume abridged version, largely compiled by his wife Lady Frazer, in 1922, with some controversial material on Christianity excluded from the text.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_George_Frazer

mountainman · 04-15-2013, 05:59 AM

So the question becomes who wrote the book ?

εὐδαιμονία | eudaimonia

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clivedurdle

Amazon is very clear it is not the same person.

The first section below is not Faraday

Quote:

1883. Because in this age, the so-called Christian religion claims to have the supreme jurisdiction over the minds of mortals in all things pertaining to spiritual truth, I have invited the spirits who lived prior to, and after the advent of the Christian religion, to unravel the mystery which surrounds its origin. Many of their statements were new to me and will be new to the world. That they are truthful I have no doubt although some of them may have been somewhat modified by translation. I have given them as they were given to me and hope they may aid minds in earth life to form a correct opinion as to the value of the religion which has supplanted ancient Greek and Roman paganism in the home of its nativity.

Quote:

When you read the book, you don't know if it was written by Faraday the scientist or someone else with the same name. Any way, the book is not what you will expect from the title, a scientific analysis about Christianism, but a collection of comments of "spirits" obtained by mean of a medium in some spiritism sessions. So, it has not a single scientific proof of what the title says (unfortunately).

By Winston Churchill
Format:Paperback
I am mystified about the author. The book says it was written in 1882/3. Michael Faraday, the great scientist died in about 1867. This book slyly refers to the author's work in chemistry & philosophy. Is it the same man? The title does not mention a scientific refutation of Jesus Christ, but it does a good job subjectively.

http://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Christ-F.../dp/0548004307

Clivedurdle · 04-15-2013, 06:18 AM

Reading the introduction on Amazon, the first reviewer above has completely misunderstood the author. He is only puttng his views into various characters in the past, not talking to spirits!

mountainman · 04-15-2013, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clivedurdle

Reading the introduction on Amazon, the first reviewer above has completely misunderstood the author. He is only puttng his views into various characters in the past, not talking to spirits!

I have not been able to read inside the book yet.

On the basis of the claims made by this reviewer I included in the OP a reference to the book from the 19th century called Antiquity Unveiled - Ancient Voices from the Spirit Realms Proving Christianity to be of Heathen Origin ( via: Amazon UK ) by J. M. Roberts.

The book description states:

Quote:

1883. Because in this age, the so-called Christian religion claims to have the supreme jurisdiction over the minds of mortals in all things pertaining to spiritual truth, I have invited the spirits who lived prior to, and after the advent of the Christian religion, to unravel the mystery which surrounds its origin. Many of their statements were new to me and will be new to the world. That they are truthful I have no doubt although some of them may have been somewhat modified by translation. I have given them as they were given to me and hope they may aid minds in earth life to form a correct opinion as to the value of the religion which has supplanted ancient Greek and Roman paganism in the home of its nativity.

I'd like to know who the author was, and to look inside this book.

Is it on google books?

εὐδαιμονία | eudaimonia

mountainman · 04-15-2013, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheerful Charlie

Quote:

Originally Posted by wordy

Yes it can feel fun to ridicule the Hollow Earth believers.

But we derail the thread which is about Apollonius of Tyana
as a template or inspiration for teh creation of the Jesus Myth.

what if that is true? Have nothing to do with Hollow Earth at all

So let us get back in track here.

What is it about Jesus that made that story survive
and that the story about Apollonius of Tyana to almost get lost?

Long ago I read Philostratus's biography of Apollonius. He seems to have rather impressed a lot of people in his day and age.

The book was sponsored by the wife of the Roman Emperor.

Consequently the book would have circulated far and wide.

It may have even circulated into the new Sassanid Persian state.

Mani may have read it, and decided to follow Apollonius's treck into India.

Quote:

But he did not promise a way to obtain salvation, eternal life in heaven etc. Which Apparently is what you have to do to form a truly lasting cult. Jesus, Mohammed, Joseph Smith, L. Ron Hubbard, et al.

Correct.

Quote:

Apollonius became a favorite of the woo-woo crowd, blavatsky's Theosophists, spiritualist churches and so on. Proof that you to could work miracles if you became sufficiently "spiritually advanced".

Apollonius was also the favourite of Napoleone Buonaparte (15 August 1769 – 5 May 1821).

εὐδαιμονία | eudaimonia

mountainman · 04-16-2013, 04:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clivedurdle

Reading the introduction on Amazon, the first reviewer above has completely misunderstood the author. He is only puttng his views into various characters in the past, not talking to spirits!

I managed to get a look inside at google books.

I would still like to know who wrote this book in 1882.

Some bits and pieces of material:

Quote:

Originally Posted by APOLLONIUS OF TYANA

Apollonius of Tyana

Jesus of Nazareth should have been my contemporary by nativity, and certainly should have been known to me by virtue of the great spiritual powers, which enabled me to designate in all nations the chosen instruments of the world of spirits.

I traversed that country where he is said to have lived, and indeed conversed with the chief of priests and rulers of the Jewish nation. I also conferred with the Rabbi Gamaliel, but I never saw, or heard of this wonder-worker of Judea.

Those who lived after me, say that I was the person whom the Roman priesthood used in constructing a new Divinity when the ideas of a spiritual philosophy had nearly overthrown the faith in the Pagan gods. Now the world worships as a reality, a mythical creation of that body of deceivers. It is a source of regret to me that this is the truth, and that so pure a code of morals should be bound to so absurd a fiction as the conception and birth of a virgin-born God.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MARCUS AURELIUS

Marcus Aurelius

We know that as mortals or spirits they have deceived and are deceiving when they state as facts their inventions and forgeries about the origin of Christianity.

They indeed seem to present a plausible theory but as the facts come to light it will appear that no virgin-born God nor any such person as they reputed Jesus ever lived or could live, and whatever good has come to the world through a mistaken faith in him, could have come as well or better without the error.

The statement in history that I persecuted the Christians is totally false.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EUSEBIUS

EUSEBIUS

A reluctant confession of his guilt in falsifying history.

Well you have sent for me, what do you want to know?

Scribe. We want to know the details of your part in the establishment of the Christian religion.

Are you a fool to suspect that I'll come and tell that?

εὐδαιμονία | eudaimonia

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04-15-2013, 06:18 AM	#34
Clivedurdle Contributor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: London UK Posts: 16,024	Reading the introduction on Amazon, the first reviewer above has completely misunderstood the author. He is only puttng his views into various characters in the past, not talking to spirits!

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