Starboy

It occurs to me that the dipsy Christians might improve the power of god by putting a delousing agent in their dip.

Starboy

Amos

Troika it is! and it is the ruling body of three within the mind of one man . . . who therefore "has no equal, he is God." Gogol states this somewhere on the last line of a chapter in the middle of the novel (mine's been out on loan for years and I hope to get it back soon)

"Abreast" denotes equal in authority. The trioka depicts the Son after he has been raised into the subconscious mind to be with the Father and after Mary has been Assumed and crowned queen of heaven and earth to co-rule over the conscious and subconscious mind. This means that these guys were intuitionists.

I still remember Chichikov (sp?)coming around the corner with his troika (early in the novel) and I knew its spelled 'troubles ahead.'

You may want to compare this with Zamjatin's "WE" page 7: "I, we four, were but one of the inummerable waves of a powerful torrent: to my left O-90 [. . . ]; to my right, two unknown numbers, a she-Number and a he-Number."

These "four abreast" was one too many (torrent is turmoil) and therefore later in the novel he jumped down from his "intergral," which, of course, was the integrated complexity of his ego consciousness. We call it the cross of Jesus whereupon he was crucified and Golding called it "the Spire" that was built on the "cross roads" of his own chest.

trendkill

I've been baptized for the dead, at the Oakland Temple. It is pretty cool in there, but it's no secret (at least not that part). It's a big room with lots of tile and a large baptismal font balanced on the backs of a bunch of golden oxen. I don't remember any other details, I was about 11 at the time, but I do remember being pretty impressed.

Here, I found a picture of the one in the Salt Lake Temple.



The page it's from has some basic information on baptism for the dead.

http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/b...aptism_EOM.htm

Amos

Pretty sick, I would say, but then I see lots of sick immagery in protestant chruches.

There is lots and lots of evidence all over in Catholicism that eternal life is between our first and second death and the second death is when we get buried. Romantic literature and poetry is crammed with heaven and that just ended recently with the reformation in Russia.

Here just above I gave an example of 4-5 novels that show how "four abreast" is reduced to a troika and these are excellent divine comedies . . . but always written by a Catholic.

Isn't this proof that there has never been a protestant reached the mental stage we call heaven? They are absolute idots and nowhere in Catholicism will you ever see a practice that cannot be explained in a very rational way to be part of this life and not after we die.

For example, as I introduced earlier, baptism of the death is the spiritual death etc. which at one time was a hit and mis practice and infant batism was introduced after the crusades had made this possible (sic) for eteranal life must allow this before it can be harmonious (no bastards in heaven).

nermal

But not in Catholic churches, eh? How about all the preserved body parts of saints and apostles? Nope, not nearly as sick as a bathtub on cow statues.

I toured the Cathedral of St. Anne de Beaupre, (sp?) and there saw a femur from some saint or another--might even have been "Peter." Don't recall. I remember hearing that there were several skulls of Peter in various Cathedrals. I do know the concept is a bit warped, to say the least.

As for babtising the dead, I don't see it as any more or less harmful than babtising sticks and rocks. Let the Mormons have their fun, and if I ever get interested in geneology, I'll be glad they did.

Ed

Amos

Yes we do have the incorruptables and use various relics of saints to sanctify our churches.

It is not harmful and it may even be fun for them, and true enough, it gives our saints something to laugh about as well.

trendkill

Yeah, the irony of a Catholic accusing other religions of "sick imagery" is off the scale.

Amos

The difference is that we can rationally justify them as actual events in this life which has to be true because many Catholics get there and would see the error. Again, only "sick imagery" is laughable.

Tiberium-X

Mormons aren't completely secretive about the inside of their temples. Tours are generally offered to the public before the buildings are dedicated. Of course they aren't too revealing about what actually happens inside of them, but the curious will be happy to know that all of that information is available on the internet.

I participated in the baptisms for the dead twice before deconverting. Here is the gist of it: After changing into white clothes (supplied by the temple) you go into a small room where two of the workers lay their hands on your head and confirm each of the people you will be baptised for as member of the church. Then you walk out, stand in a pool of warm water, and get dunked for each person as their name is read off of a screen in front of the pool. Generally each person does 15 or 20 names and gets out to make room for the next person in line. After chaning back into the clothes you came in you sit down in the pews in the back of the room and wait until your group is done.

Mormons believe that non-Mormons will be given the opportunity to accept their gospel after death and that being baptised into their church is an important part of that process.

None of this bothers me at all, seeing as how having an ancestor's name read off as somebody is dunked in a pool of water is completely meaningless. On the bright side, as others have mentioned, this belief has directed a considerable amount of money towards geneological record keeping and the like.

On the topic of the oxen beneath the baptismal font: I have no idea what they are there for and I never thought to ask, but I believe this is a consistent feature in the temples. They aren't necessarily gold though: the ones in the Dallas temple (the only temple I've been in) are white and made of stone.

Amos

]

There you go. Good for geneological record keeping.

The ox and the mule in the nativity scene represent the passified Adam and Eve identity of our ego consciousness which is the only condition for rebirht from God to take place. This is based on Jn. 1:13 where we can be reborn from both carnal desire and from God. The presense of the ox and the mule when the magi arrived was evidence of the absense of Joseph in the stable until they arrived (for 10 days, in other words).

Baptism is different and the ox must represent something else. But an ox?