spin

The passage you cite is actually just that, a condemnation, which you will probably, shamefacedly, claim referred only to those Jews present listening to the discourse.

You point out nothing. You cite from a non-Jewish source somwthing which basically contradicts the Jewish religion and the Jewish religion is partly about who your parents are. You couldn't approach the temple unless you were an Israelite.

Well apparently the speaker was wrong, based on the Hebrew bible, which clearly indicates that Yahweh is first and foremost the God of Israel.


spin

funinspace

Matthew 5:17-19 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any
means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven,"

Even Jesus seams to understand the source. OT is a later construct based on the needs of the later Church and it's emergent cannon. The Law and Prophets, or Torah would all be reasonalbe names.

DK

spin

The Jews of over two thousand years ago.

Jews do not encourage converts. To start a Jewish line you have to be married to a Jewish woman. So, can there be female converts?


spin

spin

The lazy LP675 would have fun trying to argue that xians were a Jewish sect, though I know it's exceedingly trendy these days to make the assertion. LP might try to use undatable Greek texts as though they had some historical significance, but beyond that LP has nothing. So, show me that xianity was originally a Jewish sect.


spin

judge

You fail to understand what Israel was.
Israel was not a nation defined racially. Think about it.
The nation was defined by the covenant.

Those who decided to go with Abram were circumcised. They entered into the covenant. It was nothing to do with what race they were.

What about Uriah the Hittite, was he jewish?

What about Caleb (a converted kennizite IIRC)

judge

Yes, silly LP675, Christianity was of course an Eskimo sect.

spin

Given that under normal circumstances you cannot be a part of Israel, it's understandable that you, like all xians, want to metaphorise the significance of Israel.

Check out Jdg 2:20-21 in which God calls Israel a goy!

I do appreciate the contortions, but that the nation had a covenant doesn't change the fact that it was a nation. You define the nation as only being a nation because of a covenant, but it doesn't follow logically. Israel is the nation of the covenant (with Yhwh). Moab with Kemosh. Babylon with Marduk. Yes, historically, there are national gods, but it is convoluted to define the nation by its god.

OK, so you believe there was an Abraham. It is his progeny through Jacob, literally according to the HB, that form the nation of Israel, and it is not surprising that Jacob's name is transformed into Israel to underline the fact.

If we are being literalist, what does the text say? And why do you ask?

Num 13:6 says that Caleb was from Judah. Again, why do you ask?


spin

spin

Oh, ho-ho.

The Jews don't see xianity as a Jewish sect. Why should you? Had it drummed into you by those tired HJers who can't make sense of their literature?


spin

judge

Ahhh, I see you have cleverly switched tenses.
Previously you said were ajewish sect, now you as a jewish sect (i.e. present tense)
So lets again deal with the question of whether they were originally a jewish sect (as you originally said before switching tenses).

Do jews see Christianity as originally a jewish sect?

Well again it depends on which jews one asks.
What if we ask the jews for jesus?
What will these jews say?

How is it that you speak for all jews?

Did all jews ask you to be there spokesman?
Did jews for Jesus ask you to speak for them?

rlogan

By the same logic, the Mormons are Jewish.