aa5874

Well, if you cannot prove your assertion is true, and knew such was the case all along, then why did you make the baseless assertion?

Now, just tell me what proof you have for anything with respect to the history of christianity, Jesus Christ, the disciples, or the thousands of followers, including Paul.

Amaleq13

There is no need to prove it true given the basis already described.

You are a complete waste of time. I'm joining the rest and ignoring you except as it involves my duties as a moderator.

I think Ben is right. :wave:

Clivedurdle

http://www.lyrics007.com/John%20Lenn...%20Lyrics.html

I started this thread so I will take it where I want!

I would like to explore further what Judaism was like across the med and ane from Cyrus to Hadrian. We have an imposed xian view of history that to be honest is propaganda.

I am finding so much misinterpretation and "fantasy factory" it is ridiculous.

It feels like writing the history of the twentieth century using the output of Hollywood as the only source!

I would definitely explore annointing and christing further - where is that thread about cannabis and Jesus?

I would explore embalming - is christ a possible translation of parts of the egyptian processes of making mummies?

Where has the term christ and related terms - especially to annoint, been used?

aa5874

Nobody can ignore me. It is obvious.

You know the function "ignore"

does not work anymore

for aa 587 four

mountainman

By the Hellenistic, Egyptian, Indian and Buddhist ascetics.
Think of the "Yogis of Tibet" and the ascetics of India.
Yoga and strict practices were eventually rewarded.
The "annointing" was part of the ascetic graduation.

Before the basilicas you had the "Temple network".
The basic authority was bound up in asceticism.
See Pythagoras, Apollonius of Tyana, Ammonias
Saccas, the pagan Origen, Plotinus and finally
the old man Porphyry.

Zarathustra77

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa5b.htm

Here you go, origins of the Jesus myth.

mountainman

The Egyptian connection in the Nag Hammadi Codices
is interwoven with the Hellenistic Gnostic influence.

Ammianus tells us that the earlier Roman emperors had
left standing between c.55 BCE and c.324 CE the
largest of the massive obelisks, associated with the
ancient Egyptian temple complex at Karnack, while
dragging two of the smaller obelisks back to Rome
as trophies of war for the city of Rome ....

Toto

This is based on Anglican priest Tom Harpur's Pagan Christ (or via: amazon.co.uk). It is not reliable. Search for Harpur in this forum for discussion.

aa5874

Although the church writers tried to portray orthodoxy in christian beliefs, Origen in "De Principiis" perhaps inadvertently showed that there was really no orthodoxy in christian beliefs at all.

Excerpts from De Prinipiis by Origen, writing in the 3rd century So, up to the third century christian beliefs were really heavily diversified from simple trifling matters to those of great importance.

Now , in order to establish orthodoxy in christian beliefs there must have been some central authority, but this not the case when the church writings are examined, there seemed to have been no central authority until the 4th century.

And Irenaeus again, perhaps inadvertently, showed that christian beliefs were not orthodox in the 2nd century when he wrote about the numerous variants of Jesus from Valentinus, to Marcion and Cerinthus, from human only, to phantom and only spiritual.

Hippolytus also showed the diversity in beliefs in his "Refutation of All heresies."

There was no central authority in the 2nd or third century, there were just numerous sects with their own individual leaders with some peculiar belief about Christ.

These are some of the sects and their leaders.

Valentinus, Basilides, Tatian, Simon Magus, Monoimus, Docetae, Justinus, Theodotus, the Sethians, the Montanists, the Phrygians, Melchisidecians, the Ebionians, Cerinthus, Apelles, Marcion, Hermogenes, the Peratae, the Naassani, Noestus and Callistus.

Even Justin Martyr showed no orthodoxy in christian belief when he claimed many persons were called christians even Simon Magus the magician and his disciple Menander.

The church writers wrote fiction when they claimed orthodoxy before the 4th century.

Clivedurdle

Maybe it is your use of the term fiction that is confusing.

I thought everyone accepted except from possibly catholics and fundamentalists that there were myriad xianities.

The point is then where did they come from - is there a last common ancestor in a Jesus Christ or are they just "oriental cults" spread around the ane with no clear starting point except some relationships to Judaism and annointing and logos and simple lives and justice.

Yes a political struggle occurred which allowed an orthodox church to suceed, but that one split into eastern and western versions and other branches became celtic, coptic, nestorian, chinese etc.

But what is fiction in this huge morass of belief and feelings? You do not seem to be saying anything!