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Old 05-20-2004, 07:10 AM   #21
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IMO (as always of course): I'd never believe anything Saul of Tarsus aka "Paul" aka "Saint" Paul uttered -- except as statements of his own personal opinions. My opinion (Totally-unsubstantiated & as biassed as can be) is that Saul dreamed-up nearly all of his that-stuff in order to real-ze his own personal need for a holy cuddle-up-to-me in-Heaven-with-You-
for-EVAH! MALE lover.
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Old 05-20-2004, 07:35 PM   #22
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Thanks everyone for their help here. I will try to digest and connect all the information given here. But feel free to add stuff if you like.
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Old 05-20-2004, 11:06 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Answerer
I get what you had told me, the implementation of Trinity as a dogma but what about the origin of this idea? From Paul?

Well, I'm not of the belief Paul knew of a historical Jesus. So I would not put the "Trinity" in Paul's mouth. I realize of course that apologists try to construct a makeshift trinity out of Paul.

In the Gospels it is never claimed he is God incarnate.

This is all later development, and I don't think you can cite one precise time or person that is responsible for it.

I am in agreement with Amaleq 13. The trinity resolved issues that developed over time.

Remember that there were other gospels and Christian sects going their own way in the early christian period. So the trinity could not have been universally imposed.
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Old 05-21-2004, 04:12 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Answerer
I get what you had told me, the implementation of Trinity as a dogma but what about the origin of this idea? From Paul?
The 'idea' of the tri-unity of gods far pre-dates Christianity, and was common in many ancient cultures and religions.
This is a natural extension of anthromorphizing the chief god and providing him with a consort, and of course then a male child for a heir.
Depictions of mother with the infant god, were popular in almost all ancient cultures, and remain so today.
Christianity incorperated this concept in a way that had 'mass market appeal,
Pagans who knew next to nothing of the events that had (allegedly) taken place in Jerusalem, were 'converted' by the tens of thousands, of course they also brought along their 'baggage' of pagan 'holy-days' and devotions to the icons, almost all of which was incorperated in expanding the power base of the developing new religion, further extending its 'mass market appeal'.
Of course there developed a struggle to define god juniors relationship to papa god, and to the very shadowy holy ghost, because by elevating juniour to primacy, papa needs to step aside,and the ghost gets neglected, this did'nt go over very well, so the idea of making them all co-equal developed,
this idea, was a 'new' variation on the older 'god family' concept,(now all masculine in gender, a futher boon in the predominately patriarchal societies.)
Mary of course had to be reduced to human status,and became the popular cult figure as a human intermeditary between humanity and the godhead.
With the idea of a invisable three-in-one god firmly established, a word for the concept, "Trinity" became popularized, and soon became a rallying cry to the orthodoxy of the majority, leading to the persecutions and blood-baths that followed.
Respectfully, Sheshbazzar
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