Bnonn

If I may interject from the Calvinist corner; I don't think that hell is intended as punishment, per se. It's simply the state of not being with God. Humans, being sinful, cannot be with God unless he chooses them; even new-born babies. Sin pervades them, even if they have not done anything sinful themselves.

Aileen Wuornos' could not have repented unless God had chosen her. If he had done so, since He does not choose people based on their actions, anything she had done wouldn't matter anyway.

Heathen Dawn

SC, you have to understand, the concept of moral accountability is entirely absent from Christianity (and partly from Islam). Stealing someone’s chewing gum gets the same punishment as genocide. It is all well to say that one spot renders the whole white shirt blemished; but then the God of Christianity gives you the opportunity of cleaning that spot only while you’re alive. A true God of Mercy would cleanse people of their sins after death. (And so I believe: not in heaven and hell, but in heaven and purgatory)

____________

You ask me about Total Depravity. Yes, I do believe in Total Depravity: such an evil God as the God of Christianity can only a Totally Depraved mind invent.

Karalora

Of course it's not black and white. For most situations in life, there are many ways of being "good", some of which are mutually exclusive, and many ways of being "evil", some of which are also mutually exclusive. Some actions produce both "good" and "evil" results. And what is "good" in one situation might be "evil" in another, and vice versa.

Black and white pigeonholes for morality might make things simpler on the theoretical level, but they don't reflect the reality of the choices we must sometimes make.

Magus55

What about her terrible childhood? Tons of people have a terrible childhood and don't become serial killers. Thats not an excuse.

As for your religious, for 1, I can just as easily say Christianity is true so claiming Christianity isn't true is a baseless assertion. And I'm absolutely baffled at how you can you be so terrified of Islam being true, but dismiss Christianity so easy. Islam is a heck of a lot easier to find unconvincing than Christianity is. I would stop worrying about it anyway unless you plan on converting to Muslim, praying 5 times a day facing a specific direction, following all the other rituals to try and prove yourself worthy to "Allah" (that aspect alone should make you question - prove yourself, worthy to a perfect being? Not possible), and travelling to Mecca every so often. And don't forget you have to be willing to fight in holy wars for Allah to be considered good enough to enter Heaven.

Magus55

Lots of them.

Space Chef

I'm tempted to spout some sort of apologist bullshit for Islam.

lpetrich

The eminent theologian St. Augustine had maintained that babies are guilty of sins like this; they are guilty of gluttony, jealousy, etc. (recalled from Bertrand Russell's A History of Western Philosophy).

So it's not really an eternal barbecue but something else?

And what is that "something else" like? What is it like to be in this kind of Hell? What does one experience?

Actually, I find the opposite, at least in regard to its theology. Islam has neither the Trinity nor the Incarnation -- Allah is not a three-in-one god, and Mohammed had not been a demigod.

Queen of Swords

Why is it not possible? If the perfect being is reasonable, then one can prove oneself worthy to the perfect being. And if the perfect being is unreasonably demanding, then it isn't perfect - and probably doesn't deserve to have people trying to prove themselves worthy to it in the first place.

Perhaps the perfect being should try proving itself worthy to me.

Bnonn

As I say, I'm not a Calvinist myself. My knowledge doesn't extend this far. I have heard talk that one is in a place where one can be tormented by demons, who have also been cast away from God, but I don't really know the exact word on what it's supposed to be like; I don't even know for sure that there is an exact word.