Dean Anderson

Hi Guys, I know when I'm being talked about...

Right then, down to business...

1) Gunnaheave (a 'he', by the way) did not unilaterally move the thread to ~E~. He discussed it with the other GRD moderators first - and the general agreement of those who were online was that the thread was ~E~ material.

2) Complaints about moderation should be either posted in a P&C (Problems and Complaints) thread, or reported via the "Report Post" button, not brought up in the thread itself.

3) No-one has been censored. Your thread has merely been moved to a more suitable location, not deleted.

4) At the moment, I see no reason to move this thread a second time - but I will bring up the issue in the MCR (Moderator Conference Room - the place where we discuss these things) and get a second opinion or two.

emeraldsforest

Some of the greatest frustrations I have are:

1. the Media trying to cater to the fundamentalists feelings by sensoring facts we have through science that completely discredit their faith.

2. N.A.S.A. having to ask the religious right for their support of the mission to Mars for fear they would through their vast political power strip their funding. (This really happened)

3. The fact that there are THOUSANDS of religious television programs and THOUSANDS of fundementalist christian websites and only a spattering of infidel ones.

So when I post news about a top religious figure who has used his religious power to have MAJOR negative political influence in my country the U.S.A. on one of the rare places for me to supposedly freely speak my mind, and have moderators claim it has NOTHING to do with religion, which is exactly what was said, what am I to think about this rare infidel site? It makes me feel alone and feel like just giving up. Aren't we alienated and bullied enough?

emeralds

soren625

I would be interested to read about this, could you post a link?

seebs

Sure. So what?

He certainly acts like one. So?

I tend to assume there's only the one... But people certainly have different theories about that God's nature.

But I don't see how Falwell's bigotry and cruelty justify bigotry and cruelty in others. It seems more like imitation than like considered criticism.

seebs

If that was one of the pleasures...

You act as though his behavior is wrong, but you're doing the same thing he is. You are indeed making a point of hypocrisy.

You don't have to use the word to show the virtue. Given the amount of direct and unambiguous condemnation of hatred throughout the Bible, saying that hate is a Christian virtue is nothing but a petty attempt to show how much you... well, strongly dislike ... Christianity. Of course, in so doing, you're doing exactly what Falwell is; preaching against a straw man. You're attacking "Christianity" when your objection is to certain Christians. Falwell bashes atheists because he thinks Stalin is bad...

Either way, the real point is that there's an Us and a Them, and the Them need to be called out on the carpet and villified.

The behaviors are indistinguishable. Falwell gloats about the suffering of the groups he dislikes, you gloat about the suffering of someone you dislike.

You can say it's not hatred, but I think gloating about someone's suffering is enough like hatred to pass the duck test.

braces_for_impact

This is a topic worthy of discussion! Too bad it wasn't the OP of your thread, which is why I suspect, it was moved to the land of ~E~.

If this had been your opening post, I would agree with you, but this isn't the case. Instead you open with a bad play on words in regards to Falwell's name, and end the post by referring to his weight. It just seems kinda, childish, really. As it happens I agree with you. He is a hypocrite, and he has caused a lot of harm, and personally, I'm think the world would be better off if he bought the farm. Agricultural real estate comes cheaply these days.

regis

Yeah, Emeralds; while I agree with your opinion, I do disagree with how you put it. Falwell's a hypocrite - that much was apparent years ago when he used TV (a scientific discovery) to broadcast (more science) his hate-filled, anti-science bullshit. It's just too bad that he had to live long enough to bilk the credulous out of their money & minds. But, I suppose, if if wasn't Falwell, it would have been some other charlatan.

Sorry about this getting moved to E, but II doesn't (yet) have a 'Hate-filled Charlatans' category.



:devil1:

post tenebras lux

So what?
So, it's just possible that Falwellphiles will be so shocked by people making comments such as Emeralds' about Falwell that they will also notice Falwell's bigotry. If reason hasn't worked with them, then some people might think that trying to shock them is worth a try. Perhaps they will realise that it is not nice of Falwell to kick the people he hates when they're down, after they see the people who hate Falwell kicking him when he is down?
Cute wording. Are you willing to say that Falwell is a Christian, or are you only prepared to say that he certainly acts like one?
Except that Emeralds 'bigotry and cruelty' (don't you think your view of Emeralds' words are a bit harsh here Seebs?) were directed only at Falwell.

Falwell is only suffering a little payback from Emeralds here, a minor case of 'if you live by the sword then you die by the sword'. In my book, it is perfectly OK to act like a bastard towards someone once (s)he has shown themselves to be a bastard to other people. I don't remember hearing of many leading Christians going out of their way to tell Falwell to stop being rude about the people he hated, but yet you're here telling Emeralds that it's not nice to laugh at a fat old bigot when he's down? I mean, what gives?
Why did you post on this thread Seebs?

Given that it was only ten minutes before Gunnaheave posted the decision to move this thread to Elsewhere, can we assume that he had already consulted you (and any other GRD Mod on line at the time, if any) even if you had not yet come to a collective decision on moving this thread prior to posting your own post?

If so, did you only post as a gloat to Emeralds, Seebs? I really hope not, but I can't see any other reason at the moment. Sorry.

Luxie

seebs

That seems very unlikely.

I think the people who have been following along with Falwell are probably resistant to empathy.

I don't know whether or not he's actually a Christian. He does not act as I feel Christians are called to act, but then, many people don't. I am inclined to assume he's a Christian; I tend to take people at face value on such questions.

But to say that someone is a hypocritical bastard is too close to denying the possibility that there is good in them as well, however well-hidden.

I think the words were precise. And yes, of course, they were directed only at Falwell. So? Is cruelty excusable because we direct it towards people we think are bad?

Well, then, even if I am in fact acting like a bastard, it's perfectly okay, because emeralds has done the same.

But in fact, I think that view of the world is ultimately doomed; in fact, that view is one of the most consistent flaws in Falwell. He is unwilling to extend charity.

So why, then, should we imitate this flaw?

Confirmation bias. The regular stream of Christians condemning Falwell's actions are uninteresting because they do not support an existing conclusion. Watch the famous TV dialogue between Jackson and Falwell.

Many Christians chastise Falwell, both publically and privately.

But who cares? Falwell isn't posting his filth on IIDB. If he were, I'd chew him out for it.

Because I do not believe that cruelty towards a man who may be dying is a virtue.

The details of moderator decisions are, of course, confidential. I will say that I was aware that the thread was a candidate for Elsewhere, and I might have moved it myself. However, I also felt that it deserved a response in-thread.

I can't see how it could be gloating at all. Whether the thread is in GRD or Elsewhere doesn't change its substance.

seebs

I tend to agree with this. It's not as though there's a shortage of ludicrously wealthy TV evangelists to take his place...