Rick Van Vliet

I didn't carry out the research to say that, it's in peer-reviewed scientific jouirnals, one of which is referenced in the first 2 posts you are ignorant of. Hard science, genetics.

There's no copy of Josephus within 1000 years of when he wrote it. Nothing from Plato within 1000 years of when he wrote it. A common mistake from those that know nothing of history, and how paper rots. 1000 years makes it 3,300 years ago.

And educated people call it the "Books of Moses" whether they think he wrote them or not.

Rick Van Vliet

And yes, the three main tribes of Samaritans, you are ignorant of, and complain you need a reference for, is in the first couple posts too.

And every man in them with the Cohen gene, every male ancestor for 3,400 years, was a Hebrew, with no exceptions. Jews named Cohen it's 60%, Jews in general it's 13%.

spin

You do realize that your claims about genetics is only a small part of your material. And you do realize that you didn't cite the material in any coherent manner.

Although you are materially misguided (not contemplating the finds at Oxyrhynchus and Tebtunis for what they offered of ancient literature), you are not responding, but merely weaseling.

And this, beyond the sorry ad hominem, is just more weaseling.

If you tried to get away with your citing style in a freshman paper, you would fail.

And this further assertion helps you how exactly?


spin

Rick Van Vliet

The Genetics peer-reviewed paper, and my explaination made no sense to you? Well, nothing to be done about it.

The P.Oxy paper is in Egypt, in the dry desert, not Israel, now you know. Or are at least exposed to it.

Yep, as predicted, you just made it up. There is none from time and place of Jesus that doesn't mention him.

The Samaritans strictly observing the rules in the Torah for 3,400 years, indicates that there was a Torah with rules for 3,400 years.

Glad to help sort out that difficult puzzle.

DCHindley

Rick's info is mirrored on a web site (http://bibletools.org) operated by a splinter group of Herbert W Armstrong's WWCofG, called Church of the Great God (CGG) and located in North Carolina (check Rick's location). One of the WWCofG tenets is that the "lost 10 tribes" emigrated to Europe. The Samaritans, you might remember, are supposed to be partly descended from the "lost tribes."

Their web site is dependent upon the understanding of the origins of the Samaritans that prevailed in the first decade of the 20th century, that is, they separated from the tribes of Judah in pre-exilic times.

In 1968, James D Purvis wrote a monograph called The Samaritan Pentateuch and the Origin of the Samaritan Sect (Harvard Semitic Monographs volume 2, Harvard U.P.). In it, he outlines the perspectives of both Samaritans and Jews about Samaritan origins:

In Samaritan tradition, when the Israelites were settling Canaan and the Ark was located at Shechem, Eli of the family of Ithamar, son of Aaron, desired to be high priest, but the official selection fell to Uzzi of the family of Eleazar, son of Aaron. Eli and his faction (the tribes of Judah and most of the tribe of Benjamin) withdrew and established a rival and illegitimate cultus at Shiloh, and later Jerusalem, with Jews tracing their high priesthood from Eli. God got so incensed by this schism that he hid the Ark in Mt Gerizim until the coming of the Samaritan eschatological prophet, the Taheb, who will bring back the age of grace. Of the body of Israelites, the tribe of Joseph as well as some Levites and Benjamites associated with them remained loyal to the priesthood descended from Uzzi. Some of the Israelites centered around Pirathon and Ephraim became idolaters. The remainder eventually followed Jeroboam the son of Solomon and established the kingdom of Israel with Samaria as their center. After the Assyrian conquest, the Samaritans (the tribe of Joseph, some Levites and Benjamites mentioned above) were eventually allowed to return and re-establish their traditional cultus on Mt Gerazim, precisely because they had maintained their Yahwist faith pure. They thus served as the cultural leadership of the region of Samaria, which had been resettled with foreigners by the Assyrians. Their Chronicle Adler knows of two returns, one under the high priest Seriah (early 7th century BCE) and another under the high priest Abdiel (late 6th century BCE).

Jewish tradition (2 Kings 17:24-41, and Rabbinic traditions from the Mishna to Talmud and extra-Talmudic) maintain that Samaritanism came into being as the result of the settlement of Mesopotamian colonists in Samaria by the Assyrians in the late 8th century BCE, after they had defeated the northern kingdom of Israel. These people became Yahwists as a result of the fear of the local deity (YHWH) occasioned by a plague of lions. Since they did not know the indigenous faith, a Yahwist priest was returned from exile to instruct them in the local religion. They then worshipped YHWH as well as their own gods. Usually, the 2 Kings passage is taken as an indictment of pagan practices which were extant and dominant in Samaria from the time of the Assyrian conquest to the time when the Deuteronomic history was compiled. Rabbinic tradition says "the usages of the Samaritans are in part, like those of the Gentiles, in part like those of Israel (Jews), but mostly like Israel" (per extra-Talmudic tract Kutim).

Even so, an absence of anti-Samaritan bias in the policies of king Hezekiah and Josiah, or in the books of Deuteronomy, Jeremiah and Ezekiel, strongly suggests that there was no organized Samaritan sect in the Jewish late pre-exilic or early exilic periods. Later, upon the return of members of the tribe of Judah and Benjamin to Judah during the Babylonian exile in Persian times, they came into conflict with the Samaritan Yahwists over the re-establishment of a temple at Jerusalem, as recorded in Ezra-Nehemiah. Josephus says that the temple on Mt Gerizim was established as follows:

Sanballet, Governor of the Persian satrapy of Samaria, gave his daughter in marriage to Manasseh, a member of the high priestly family in Jerusalem. The elders of Jerusalem expelled him until he divorced his wife. To save the marriage, Sanballet offered to build his son-in-law a temple on Mt Gerizim. He sought permission from Darius III, but before he could rule on the matter Alexander the Great invaded the orient. Sanballet shifted his allegiance to Alexander, and as a reward Alexander granted permission to erect the temple, and Manasseh attracted a number of reprobates. Some argue that this is really an expansion of a story in Nehemiah about an expelled priest in Persian times, not the time of Alexander, but this is just as speculative as the story in Josephus.

In any event, Alexander later punished Samaria for a revolt that occurred while he invaded Egypt, establishing a Greek colony in the city of Samaria and giving parts of the province of Samaria to the province of Judea. The displaced Samarian Yahwists resettled around Shechem. Whether a temple existed at this time on Mt Gerizim is unknown, but one certainly existed by 128 BCE. Whatever was the case, the Samarian Yahwists weren't on friendly terms with Judeans, and many Samaritans became Hellenized under the Seleucid kings. From the establishment of Judean autonomy from Seleucid rule in 164 CE, there is no record of any Judean military campaigns in Samaria until the time of John Hyrcanus. Hyrcanus pillaged Shechem and Mt Gerizim, destroying the Samaritan temple in 128 BCE, during a period of expansion of Judean control that included conquest of Idumea, parts of Galilee and Iturea, and destruction of the Greek city of Samaria.

Purvis suggests that the Samaritan Pentateuch came into being at this time, utilizing the Pentateuch of the Judeans, which they modified to emphasize their own prominence.

Amen.

DCH

spamandham

I anxiously await the genetic testing of every male ancestor for 3400 years.

spin

Perhaps we missed the fact that you didn't actually cite the exact source. And that made no sense when you were whinging about your internet facts.

You could try to document your work seriously.

Context, my boy, context. You were saying crap about Plato amongst other things failingly trying to impress about the ages of texts. Just so you know, there are fragments from Egypt of Plato's work from 2nd c. CE and one from the turn of the era.

Because you don't understand what you were talking about, you're just off with your little wagon of joy, wagon it about with gay abandon.

There's nothing that indicates that there was a torah long before the oldest fragments from Qumran.

When you can help yourself, then you might be able to help others.

Help yourself with a little serious documentation. Start by providing the exact scholarly reference to the Y-chromosome material you seem so interested in. Then follow it up with the primary sources for your claims of a torak in existence for 3,400 years. Hopefully, you can at least supply the former.


spin

Rick Van Vliet

You don't know what a Y-Chromosome is and how it's inherited?

Wow.

Rick Van Vliet

False. Only the small part linked to that one article.

Get a clue.

Rick Van Vliet

False. It's there in black and white.

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