Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Converse02 · 01-29-2008, 07:55 PM

I voted other.

Jesus probably exists as a small time guru. But as people said, like Robin Hood and King Arthur, his legends got blown way out of proportion.

Sheshbazzar · 01-29-2008, 08:30 PM

But then a "jesus" that doesn't even come near to matching the description of the "Jesus" of the New Testement, would not be that "Jesus" of the New Testament.
Among the Jews, there were many "Jesus's", and most, being 1st century "Jews" would have been practitioners of the "Jewish" religion.
So, If you were to find a "Jesus" and he was "religious" maybe even a leader, and a preacher, but does not do, or say, most of the things that were allegedly done and said by the Jesus of the New Testament, how then at all is this jesus to be identified as that "Jesus"?

aa5874 · 01-29-2008, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Converse02

I voted other.

Jesus probably exists as a small time guru. But as people said, like Robin Hood and King Arthur, his legends got blown way out of proportion.

But, this probability is an unsubstantiated claim and is just based on imagination. The NT and the early church fathers do not present a small time guru, they all wrote about a man, if we can call him a man, that was believed to be the Son of a God, the Messiah, and also thought to have the ability to do without food for forty days and could heal all manner of diseases and had thousands of followers.

Jesus was depicted as a larger than life superhero.

There appears to be no evidence for this Jesus, and if you follow the evidence, it would appear that Jesus was nothing, not even a guru for a small time.

arnoldo · 01-29-2008, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar

What do you expect to be found in such a tomb?
Come on now don't be shy.

He is Risen.

Sheshbazzar · 01-29-2008, 09:28 PM

If so, then what "many questions" would finding yet another

"jesus" tomb answer?
hint; None, just more questions, and another opportunity for crafty Christers to make a quick buck off the gullible, nothing new under the sun.

schilling.klaus · 01-29-2008, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

So you can basically just revise history to prove your argument. I guess the Romans never built colosieums and had gladiators fight each other, animals, slaves,etc?

revising history is the work of Eusebius, Bracciolinui, Scaliger, and their ilk. whether antiquity existed at all is not all that sure, as proven by Anatoli Timofeevich Fomenko.

Klaus Schilling

arnoldo · 01-30-2008, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar

If so, then what "many questions" would finding yet another

"jesus" tomb answer?
hint; None, just more questions, and another opportunity for crafty Christers to make a quick buck off the gullible, nothing new under the sun.

Yes, the argument of silence is deafening. The latest claim,along with DNA evidence, has been proven to be a hoax. Truly there is nothing new under the sun.

mountainman · 01-30-2008, 01:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schilling.klaus

revising history is the work of Eusebius, Bracciolinui, Scaliger, and their ilk. whether antiquity existed at all is not all that sure, as proven by Anatoli Timofeevich Fomenko.

Klaus Schilling

Fomenko runs into big problems with C14 citations.
He needs an additional postulate that C14 calibrations
are nowhere near accurate, and for that reason his
theory cannot in my mind be accepted as "proved".

We are left back at the beginning with the Roman
emperor Constantine, who discontinued patronage
of the Healer Asclepius (derived from Imhotep, the
Egyptian physician, architect, polymath) on the
coins of the Roman Empire, after almost 300 years
of such patronage, and instead destroyed this
tradition after the manner of a military supremacist
and malevolent despot.

Best wishes,

Pete Brown

angelo · 01-30-2008, 03:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffevnz

Chose "maybe" because the picture is way too murky for us to know.

If you'd forced us to choose yes or no, with the loose criteria that there was a preacher named Jesus, on whom the gospels are somehow based, who founded Christianity; I would have chosen yes. Not a strong yes, but I'd bet money such a person existed, based on 1) numerous embarassing details in and about the Gospels, and 2) Ockham's razor, in view of the existence of Christianity*.

*It's been quite common, throughout history, including some recent, well-documented examples, for cults to be founded by a single, charismatic leader. I'm not aware of any documented cases of cults purporting to have been started by such a leader, who turns out to have been fictional.

What about the various religions based on Baal, Marduk, Isis, Horus, Zeus, Apollo, and a host of other so-called gods of ancient times. All were fictional.

arnoldo · 01-30-2008, 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainman

Quote:

Originally Posted by schilling.klaus

revising history is the work of Eusebius, Bracciolinui, Scaliger, and their ilk. whether antiquity existed at all is not all that sure, as proven by Anatoli Timofeevich Fomenko.

Klaus Schilling

Fomenko runs into big problems with C14 citations.
He needs an additional postulate that C14 calibrations
are nowhere near accurate, and for that reason his
theory cannot in my mind be accepted as "proved".

We are left back at the beginning with the Roman
emperor Constantine, who discontinued patronage
of the Healer Asclepius (derived from Imhotep, the
Egyptian physician, architect, polymath) on the
coins of the Roman Empire, after almost 300 years
of such patronage, and instead destroyed this
tradition after the manner of a military supremacist
and malevolent despot.

Best wishes,

Pete Brown

So is your argument the following?

Jesus Christ = myth
Apostle Paul=myth
Christians circa first century to fourth century = myth
Perscution of early christian believers = myth
:huh:

View Poll Results: Was Jesus ever an actual human being?
Yes	45	20.93%
No	78	36.28%
Maybe	84	39.07%
Other	8	3.72%
Voters: 215. You may not vote on this poll

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01-29-2008, 07:55 PM	#181
Converse02 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: North Carolina Posts: 883	I voted other. Jesus probably exists as a small time guru. But as people said, like Robin Hood and King Arthur, his legends got blown way out of proportion.

01-29-2008, 08:30 PM	#182
Sheshbazzar Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: On the path of knowledge Posts: 8,889	But then a "jesus" that doesn't even come near to matching the description of the "Jesus" of the New Testement, would not be that "Jesus" of the New Testament. Among the Jews, there were many "Jesus's", and most, being 1st century "Jews" would have been practitioners of the "Jewish" religion. So, If you were to find a "Jesus" and he was "religious" maybe even a leader, and a preacher, but does not do, or say, most of the things that were allegedly done and said by the Jesus of the New Testament, how then at all is this jesus to be identified as that "Jesus"?

01-29-2008, 09:28 PM	#185
Sheshbazzar Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: On the path of knowledge Posts: 8,889	If so, then what "many questions" would finding yet another "jesus" tomb answer? hint; None, just more questions, and another opportunity for crafty Christers to make a quick buck off the gullible, nothing new under the sun.

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