Freethought & Rationalism Archive

rhutchin · 02-12-2009, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhutchin

Most would agree that the interpretation of any one passage in the Bible must agree with all other passages in the Bible. Most disagreements on the interpretation of a passage can generally be traced to claims of lack of agreement of the disputed interpretation with other passages.

Do you believe that the Bible teaches that a global flood literally occurred? do you believe that the Bible teaches that the earth is literally less than 15,000 years old?

Yes - literally true in the physical sense and not metaphorical sense.

Shadowy Man · 02-12-2009, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhutchin

Yes - literally true in the physical sense and not metaphorical sense.

:huh:

What would "literally true" in a "metaphorical sense" even mean??

LightCC · 02-12-2009, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowy Man

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightCC

This is why even those following 'Sola Scriptura' tend to believe that confirmation and/or illumination from the Holy Spirit of God is required to get at the truth of God in the scriptures (see the first article of the Westminster Confession as a prime example)

Then shouldn't all readings, if guided by the holy spirit, lead to the same interpretation?

Yes, if all Christians were aware of this method of interpretation, followed it, were able to surrender completely to the teaching of the Holy Spirit, and were able to keep the mind of man and traditions of man out of the picture...

But seeing as I've been in bible-believing churches all my life and it took until I was nearly 30 before my eyes were opened to this concept... I'd say there are a lot of Christians who are blind to it.

If your intention in reading the Bible is consciously or subconsciously to prove any particular point, you will normally be able to using emotion along with human reasoning and logic and end up being able to prove that point.

(incidentally, I personally believe and have experienced the teaching of the Holy Spirit and/or discernment of truth/spirits when studying material other than the Bible, which is part of why I am curious about the current topic...)

Shadowy Man · 02-12-2009, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightCC

But seeing as I've been in bible-believing churches all my life and it took until I was nearly 30 before my eyes were opened to this concept... I'd say there are a lot of Christians who are blind to it.

This feels like it borders on the No True Scotsman fallacy. Anyone who didn't interpret it right obviously wasn't doing the interpreting right, because if they did they'd get the right interpretation, right?

LightCC · 02-12-2009, 04:29 PM

Some relevant quotes from A.W. Tozer, from here

Quote:

For a man to understand revealed truth requires an act of God equal to the original act which inspired the text.

__________

We need to learn that truth consists not in correct doctrine, but in correct doctrine plus the inward enlightenment of the Holy Spirit.

__________

Men who have been used of God in any generation from Calvary down to this hour have not invented and preached new truths. They have simply had the anointed vision to discover truths that had been obscured by the overemphasis of certain other truths.

Regarding the question of spiritual enlightenment from the Holy Spirit to help answer my position.

This is not a topic that is easy to discern looking from the outside in, but you asked, so here it is.

Wooster · 02-12-2009, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhutchin

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

Do you believe that the Bible teaches that a global flood literally occurred? do you believe that the Bible teaches that the earth is literally less than 15,000 years old?

Yes - literally true in the physical sense and not metaphorical sense.

Living in a parallel universe must be nice.

Reality disagrees with you, who is right, you or reality?

Doug Shaver · 02-13-2009, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhutchin

I am not aware that scientific research has ever "discovered that no world wide flood had ever occurred."

If it had occurred, there would be clear evidence. Scientific research has discovered that such evidence does not exist. Therefore, it did not occur.

Deus Ex · 02-13-2009, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightCC

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowy Man

Then shouldn't all readings, if guided by the holy spirit, lead to the same interpretation?

Yes, if all Christians were aware of this method of interpretation, followed it, were able to surrender completely to the teaching of the Holy Spirit, and were able to keep the mind of man and traditions of man out of the picture...

But seeing as I've been in bible-believing churches all my life and it took until I was nearly 30 before my eyes were opened to this concept... I'd say there are a lot of Christians who are blind to it.

If your intention in reading the Bible is consciously or subconsciously to prove any particular point, you will normally be able to using emotion along with human reasoning and logic and end up being able to prove that point.

(incidentally, I personally believe and have experienced the teaching of the Holy Spirit and/or discernment of truth/spirits when studying material other than the Bible, which is part of why I am curious about the current topic...)

So you are a True Christian: one who has been properly instructed by the Holy Spirit, and anyone who disagrees with you is not fully surrendering themselves to the Spirit.

Where have I heard this before? Oh I remember; every different denominational church that I ever attended has this belief. All churches consider themselves to be the One True Church that properly follows the teaching of the Spirit.

rhutchin · 02-13-2009, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Shaver

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhutchin

I am not aware that scientific research has ever "discovered that no world wide flood had ever occurred."

If it had occurred, there would be clear evidence. Scientific research has discovered that such evidence does not exist. Therefore, it did not occur.

I am not aware that "Scientific research has discovered that such evidence does not exist."

rhutchin · 02-13-2009, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wooster

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhutchin

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

Do you believe that the Bible teaches that a global flood literally occurred? do you believe that the Bible teaches that the earth is literally less than 15,000 years old?

Yes - literally true in the physical sense and not metaphorical sense.

Living in a parallel universe must be nice.

Reality disagrees with you, who is right, you or reality?

Reality disagrees with me?? How did you arrive at that conclusion? Perhaps it is just your personal opinion.

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