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Old 01-22-2012, 12:39 PM   #51
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The symbolism even becomes stronger if we assume the Judas substitution was originally part of the narrative. Crucifying “Jew” on something that resembled the “sign” of the Tenth Legion. It would be like Hitler writing a story about a certain Judas who got trapped inside his own oven while attempting spring cleaning and died.
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Old 01-22-2012, 12:41 PM   #52
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The question still remains how this electric chair was turned into a positive symbol
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Old 01-22-2012, 12:43 PM   #53
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How about both?

A unicode Greek text is available here.

Unfortunately this is not the best formatted unicode Greek text (adds too many paragraph marks, which should only appear after a full stop ".") I have dealt with from the khazarzar site.

Hopefully you meant 'Weekly worship of the Christians' so this is what I come up with:

Justin 1 Apology Chapter 67, text is that of Migne ANF vol 1, English Translation
Ἡμεῖς δὲ μετὰ ταῦτα λοιπὸν ἀεὶ τούτων ἀλλήλους ἀναμιμνήσκομεν• And we afterwards continually remind each other of these things.
καὶ οἱ ἔχοντες τοῖς λειπομένοις πᾶσιν ἐπι κουροῦμεν, καὶ σύνεσμεν ἀλλήλοις ἀεί. And the wealthy among us help the needy; and we always keep together;
ἐπὶ πᾶσί τε οἷς προσφερόμεθα εὐλογοῦμεν τὸν ποιητὴν τῶν πάντων διὰ τοῦ υἱοῦ αὐτοῦ Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ καὶ διὰ πνεύματος τοῦ ἁγίου. and for all things wherewith we are supplied, we bless the Maker of all through His Son Jesus Christ, and through the Holy Ghost.
καὶ τῇ τοῦ ἡλίου λεγομένῃ ἡμέρᾳ πάντων κατὰ πόλεις ἢ ἀγροὺς μενόντων ἐπὶ τὸ αὐτὸ συνέλευσις γίνεται, καὶ τὰ ἀπομνη μονεύματα τῶν ἀποστόλων ἢ τὰ συγγράμματα τῶν προφητῶν ἀναγινώσκεται, μέχρις ἐγχωρεῖ. And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits;
εἶτα παυσαμένου τοῦ ἀναγι νώσκοντος ὁ προεστὼς διὰ λόγου τὴν νουθεσίαν καὶ πρόκλησιν τῆς τῶν καλῶν τούτων μιμήσεως ποιεῖται. then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things.
ἔπειτα ἀνιστάμεθα κοινῇ πάντες καὶ εὐχὰς πέμπομεν• καί, ὡς προέφημεν, παυσα μένων ἡμῶν τῆς εὐχῆς ἄρτος προσφέρεται καὶ οἶνος καὶ ὕδωρ, καὶ ὁ προεστὼς εὐχὰς ὁμοίως καὶ εὐχαριστίας, ὅση δύναμις αὐτῷ, ἀναπέμπει, καὶ ὁ λαὸς ἐπευφημεῖ λέγων τὸ Ἀμήν, καὶ ἡ διάδοσις καὶ ἡ μετάληψις ἀπὸ τῶν εὐχαριστηθέντων ἑκάστῳ γίνεται, καὶ τοῖς οὐ παροῦσι διὰ τῶν διακόνων πέμπεται. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons.
οἱ εὐποροῦντες δὲ καὶ βουλόμενοι κατὰ προαίρεσιν ἕκαστος τὴν ἑαυτοῦ ὃ βούλεται δίδωσι, καὶ τὸ συλλεγόμενον παρὰ τῷ προε στῶτι ἀποτίθεται, καὶ αὐτὸς ἐπικουρεῖ ὀρφανοῖς τε καὶ χήραις, καὶ τοῖς διὰ νόσον ἢ δι' ἄλλην αἰτίαν λειπομένοις, καὶ τοῖς ἐν δεσμοῖς οὖσι, καὶ τοῖς παρεπιδήμοις οὖσι ξένοις, καὶ ἁπλῶς πᾶσι τοῖς ἐν χρείᾳ οὖσι κηδεμὼν γίνεται. And they who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the president, who succours the orphans and widows and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds and the strangers sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need.
τὴν δὲ τοῦ ἡλίου ἡμέραν κοινῇ πάντες τὴν συνέλευσιν ποιούμεθα, ἐπειδὴ πρώτη ἐστὶν ἡμέρα, ἐν ᾗ ὁ θεὸς τὸ σκότος καὶ τὴν ὕλην τρέψας κόσμον ἐποίησε, καὶ Ἰησοῦς Χριστὸς ὁ ἡμέτερος σωτὴρ τῇ αὐτῇ ἡμέρᾳ ἐκ νεκρῶν ἀνέστη. But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead.
τῇ γὰρ πρὸ τῆς κρονικῆς ἐσταύρω σαν αὐτόν, καὶ τῇ μετὰ τὴν κρονικήν, ἥτις ἐστὶν ἡλίου ἡμέρα, φανεὶς τοῖς ἀποστόλοις αὐτοῦ καὶ μαθηταῖς ἐδίδαξε ταῦτα, ἅπερ εἰς ἐπίσκεψιν καὶ ὑμῖν ἀνεδώκαμεν. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration.

The secret to creating these tables is to copy and paste a section of an English Translation (available everywhere on the internet) into the right side cell of a two column table, say in MS Word. Add a paragraph break after each sentence (after the period), effectively making each ET sentence a paragraph.

Next I used one of the footnotes in the CCEL version of the ET to identify a snippet of Greek text from the unicode file. Be aware that the unicode text may not capitalize words the same way as the CCEL ANF translation. Once you find it in the Greek text, you know you are in the neighborhood.

Then, see if you can identify a characteristic word or phrase in the Greek text preceeding the neighborhood passage above that seems to correspond to a certain word or phrase in the beginning of the section of the ET.

Figure this might be the start of your section, and copy a segment of the Greek text starting right after the previous full stop to a length a little longer than the corresponding ET (using the same font for both columns, they usually are close to the same length).

Delete all paragraph marks except those after a full stop. The Greek text will have all sorts of punctuation that is different than English, but a Greek full stop equates with an English period.

Now you have a table with two columns and one row, the left side with the greek text all broken into paragraphs corresponding to full stops, and the right with the ET broken down into sentence paragraphs. you should already see parallels especially if you have a Greek-English lexicon hanging about.

Carefully compare each sentence to one another, and fine tune as necessary (you can't be sure that the translator followed the Greek punctuation exactly or even the order of clauses). Add rows for each sentence identified and copy/paste the Greek & ET into that new row. Proceed until you are done.

DCH

Quote:
Originally Posted by tanya View Post
Could I impose on you, to quote the Greek from Justin's 1st Apology, verse 67?

Alternatively, if you have a link to the Greek text, that would be excellent.

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Old 01-22-2012, 01:17 PM   #54
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http://articles.cnn.com/2010-11-22/w...ty?_s=PM:WORLD





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Old 01-22-2012, 01:22 PM   #55
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Apparently the legion has set up its own web page recently

http://www.legionten.org/Studies/LXF...XFstudies.html
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Old 01-22-2012, 01:31 PM   #56
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Here is the best recreation I found of the ensign. Notice the 'X' under the eagle:

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Old 01-22-2012, 01:47 PM   #57
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Eusebius calls the Cross “a trophy of the Saviour's passion.”. When Constantine looks up in the sky he sees a military ensign. Politicians are rarely creative types. Constantine adopted a pre-existent understanding of the stauros as semeion
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Old 01-22-2012, 01:53 PM   #58
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Eusebius tells us that when the trophe “had appeared in the sky, and [those around Constantine] urged him to make himself a copy of this sign [Greek: semeion]”*
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Old 01-22-2012, 01:58 PM   #59
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The identification of the cross as trophe is already present in Origen:

'The cross of Christ,' he says, 'is a trophy against Satan. This is why,' Origen adds, 'Paul says, "May I", who have known
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Old 01-22-2012, 02:05 PM   #60
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And Tertullian`s Apology:

But you also worship victories, for in your trophies the cross is the heart of the trophy.

And Against Marcion Book Four in the discussion of the Legion story (which has been often connected to the tenth legion with its swine symbol)

You (Marcion) suppose that He is predicted as a military and armed warrior, instead of one who in a figurative and allegorical sense was to wage a spiritual warfare against spiritual enemies, in spiritual campaigns, and with spiritual weapons: come now, when in one man alone you discover a multitude of demons calling itself Legion, of course comprised of spirits, you should learn that Christ also must be understood to be an exterminator of spiritual foes, who wields spiritual arms and fights in spiritual strife; and that it was none other than He, who now had to contend with even a legion of demons. Therefore it is of such a war as this that the Psalm may evidently have spoken: "The Lord is strong, The Lord is mighty in battle." For with the last enemy death did He fight, and through the trophy of the cross He triumphed.
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