Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Steven Carr · 03-09-2008, 01:58 AM

http://www.sacred-destinations.com/i...-sepulchre.htm

'The Christian community of Jerusalem held worship services at the site until 66 AD (according to historians Eusebius and Socrates Scholasticus).'

is this true?

schilling.klaus · 03-09-2008, 03:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Carr

http://www.sacred-destinations.com/i...-sepulchre.htm

'The Christian community of Jerusalem held worship services at the site until 66 AD (according to historians Eusebius and Socrates Scholasticus).'

is this true?

No, it's an Eusebiophile lie, as there's no such thing as a pre-70 Jerusalem community, as Christianity started after the war , away from Jersusalem

Klaus Schilling

Peter Kirby · 03-09-2008, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Carr

http://www.sacred-destinations.com/i...-sepulchre.htm

'The Christian community of Jerusalem held worship services at the site until 66 AD (according to historians Eusebius and Socrates Scholasticus).'

is this true?

That would depend on whether Eusebius (and Socrates Scholasticus) has the indicated citation. Does anyone know of the alleged cite?

Doug Shaver · 03-10-2008, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Carr

'The Christian community of Jerusalem held worship services at the site until 66 AD (according to historians Eusebius and Socrates Scholasticus).'

I don't know about Socrates, but are they talking about THE Eusebius?

If he had written any such thing, I cannot imagine never having seen it cited in any of the apologetic literature I've read. William Lane Craig, for just one, would be shouting it from the housetops.

andrewcriddle · 03-11-2008, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Shaver

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Carr

'The Christian community of Jerusalem held worship services at the site until 66 AD (according to historians Eusebius and Socrates Scholasticus).'

I don't know about Socrates, but are they talking about THE Eusebius?

If he had written any such thing, I cannot imagine never having seen it cited in any of the apologetic literature I've read. William Lane Craig, for just one, would be shouting it from the housetops.

I suspect (but have been unable to verify) that this refers not to the original Ecclesiastical History by Eusebius, but to the updated expanded Latin translation produced by Rufinus towards the end of the 4th century.

Andrew Criddle

andrewcriddle · 03-20-2008, 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewcriddle

I suspect (but have been unable to verify) that this refers not to the original Ecclesiastical History by Eusebius, but to the updated expanded Latin translation produced by Rufinus towards the end of the 4th century.

Andrew Criddle

What may possibly be relevant is what Rufinus says in Book 10 of his Latin version of Eusebius.

In chapter 7 speaking of the supposed discovery of the Holy Sepulchre by Helena it says

Quote:

It was hard to find because an image of Venus had been fixed there by the persecutors of old so that if any Christian wished to worship Christ in that place he would seem to be worshipping Venus

We already find in Eusebius Life of Constantine Book III the idea that building a pagan temple at the site was a deliberately anti-Christian measure
http://www.tertullian.org/fathers2/N...#P7529_3124988

Quote:

For it had been in time past the endeavor of impious men (or rather let me say of the whole race of evil spirits through their means), to consign to the darkness of oblivion that divine monument of immortality to which the radiant angel had descended from heaven, and rolled away the stone for those who still had stony hearts, and who supposed that the living One still lay among the dead; and had declared glad tidings to the women also, and removed their stony-hearted unbelief by the conviction that he whom they sought was alive. This sacred cave, then, certain impious and godless persons had thought to remove entirely from the eyes of men, supposing in their folly that thus they should be able effectually to obscure the truth. Accordingly they brought a quantity of earth from a distance with much labor, and covered the entire spot; then, having raised this to a moderate height, they paved it with stone, concealing the holy cave beneath this massive mound. Then, as though their purpose had been effectually accomplished, they prepare on this foundation a truly dreadful sepulchre of souls, by building a gloomy shrine of lifeless idols to the impure spirit whom they call Venus, and offering detestable oblations therein on profane and accursed altars. For they supposed that their object could not otherwise be fully attained, than by thus burying the sacred cave beneath these foul pollutions.

But we have in Rufinus the idea that the pagan temple was intended to prevent Christian worship at the site; which must imply that Christian worship at the site was previously occurring.

We find a similar (legendary) idea in Socrates http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf202.ii.iv.xvii.html

Quote:

Those who embraced the Christian faith, after the period of his passion, greatly venerated this tomb; but those who hated Christianity, having covered the spot with a mound of earth, erected on it a temple to Venus, and set up her image there, not caring for the memory of the place.

Andrew Criddle

03-09-2008, 01:58 AM	#1
Steven Carr Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: England Posts: 5,629	Worship at the Empty Tomb http://www.sacred-destinations.com/i...-sepulchre.htm 'The Christian community of Jerusalem held worship services at the site until 66 AD (according to historians Eusebius and Socrates Scholasticus).' is this true?

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