Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Agnostic Theist · 08-12-2004, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sven

But you indicate nowhere that it's not from you. I don't think there's a copyright on this story, but normally one marks quotations in some way.

What do you want?

{quote=Some dude who nicked it off his dad's son's uncle's nephew's father's brother's neice's sister's brother's cousin's auntie's son}

:Cheeky:

Do you want me to cite a source for every joke I post?!

Joshua Adams · 08-12-2004, 10:19 PM

Jesus should take his own figgin' advice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke 13:6-9

Then he told this parable: "A man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came looking for fruit on it and found none. So he said to the gardener, 'See here! For three years I have come looking for fruit on this fig tree, and still I find none. Cut it down! Why should it be wasting the soil?' He replied, 'Sir, let it alone for one more year, until I dig around it and put manure on it. If it bears fruit next year, well and good; but if not, you can cut it down.'"

And just for fun,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke 7:34

the Son of Man has come eating and drinking, and you say, 'Look, a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!

Magdlyn · 08-13-2004, 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IAsimisI

I agree and I don't deny it, and I too agree that they are groundless because most of the time they are not aproved by the religion that is used to commit them.

Well, except for the Inquisition, which lasted for hundreds of years and was sanctioned by-- the Pope.

Naked Ape · 08-13-2004, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IAsimisI

Anything can be a powerful motivating force to commit atrocities, people can turn a good thing into an excuse to kill each other. Hell I have seen fans of different baseball teams fight each other simply because the contrary team won the finals.

Would you happen to have a list of atheist suicide bombers handy? I still think it takes religion to convince someone that martyrdom will get them an instant ticket to heaven. Both the koran and the bible promise this. Once you have established the fantasy that there is a perfect supernatural world where you will live again after you die being persecuted for your god, it just takes a little spin doctoring to convince wackos to turn airplanes into religion-guided missiles, or to convince wackos to kill doctors who perform medical procedures that they disaprove of.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IAsimisI

I agree and I don't deny it, and I too agree that they are groundless because most of the time they are not aproved by the religion that is used to commit them.

Whether or not they are approved by the religion that is used to commit them is somewhat beside the point. The point is that religion was used to commit them. The woo-woo elements of every religion are groundless from the perspective of any other religion, these woo-woo elements such as faith (believing without evidence or understanding), or promises of special treatment in an alleged afterlife are the dangerous bits. If religions merely concerned themselves with holding bake sales for habitat for humanity and not with advancing dangerous notions such as faith or afterlives, then religions could stand blameless.

Why was jesus so stupid? Perhaps because he valued faith more than he valued inquiry.

Cheers,

Naked Ape

IrishGuy · 08-14-2004, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyrrho

While reading some posts in another thread, I started wondering why Jesus, as depicted in the canonical texts, is depicted as being so very stupid. After all, with the books written years after the events that they supposedly relate, one would think there would be plenty of time to dream up something better. Is it that his writers were simply idiots?

For an example of his stupidity (suggested by someone in the aforementioned thread), consider what he did to a fig tree that did not bear fruit:

Matthew 21:

18 Now in the morning as he returned into the city, he hungered. 19 And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away. KJV

Mark 11:

11 And Jesus entered into Jerusalem, and into the temple: and when he had looked round about upon all things, and now the eventide was come, he went out unto Bethany with the twelve. 12 And on the morrow, when they were come from Bethany, he was hungry: 13 And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find any thing thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet. 14 And Jesus answered and said unto it, No man eat fruit of thee hereafter for ever. And his disciples heard it. KJV

So much for his omniscience, as he did not know that the tree did not have figs, even though it was not the right season for it to have figs! Jesus didn't even know things that his contemporaries could easily know! And then, like a spoiled brat, he takes his aggression out on the tree!

This is the moron who millions worship as God! Can anything be more delightfully absurd?

First off, you are not helping your cause or your credibility by being rude.

Second, if you would read the Bible, and not just comb athiest websites lists of Bible passages taken out of context, you would discover that Jesus cursed the fig tree to help teach his disciples.

Mark 11:
20 In the morning, as they went along, they saw the fig tree withered from the roots. 21 Peter remembered and said to Jesus, "Rabbi, look! The fig tree you cursed has withered!"
22 "Have[6] faith in God," Jesus answered. 23 "I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. 24 Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours. 25 And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive him, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins."[7]

Toto · 08-15-2004, 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IrishGuy

. . . if you would read the Bible, and not just comb athiest websites lists of Bible passages taken out of context, you would discover that Jesus cursed the fig tree to help teach his disciples.

Mark 11:
20 In the morning, as they went along, they saw the fig tree withered from the roots. 21 Peter remembered and said to Jesus, "Rabbi, look! The fig tree you cursed has withered!"
22 "Have[6] faith in God," Jesus answered. 23 "I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. 24 Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours. 25 And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive him, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins."[7]

I have already pointed out this passage as not reflecting well on Jesus.

Are you claiming that what Jesus said here is intelligent? If you really believe that you can fly, should you jump off a tall building to test your faith?

IrishGuy · 08-15-2004, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

I have already pointed out this passage as not reflecting well on Jesus.

Are you claiming that what Jesus said here is intelligent? If you really believe that you can fly, should you jump off a tall building to test your faith?

Satan told Jesus to do the same thing. He replied with "Do not put the Lord your God to the test."

I'm not positive, but it could hyperbole to show the power and importance of faith. If its literal, thats fine too. But if it is literal it doesn't pertain to me, seeing as I have doubt in my heart.

So, to answer your first question, I don't find anything unintellegent about it.

Evoken · 08-15-2004, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Naked Ape

Would you happen to have a list of atheist suicide bombers handy? I still think it takes religion to convince someone that martyrdom will get them an instant ticket to heaven. Both the koran and the bible promise this. Once you have established the fantasy that there is a perfect supernatural world where you will live again after you die being persecuted for your god, it just takes a little spin doctoring to convince wackos to turn airplanes into religion-guided missiles, or to convince wackos to kill doctors who perform medical procedures that they disaprove of.

People do not need the excuse of an after life to commit crimes, people use many other non supernatural reasons to do them. The wackos who fly airplanes into buildings or kill doctors cross the line and stop being Christians(I can't speak for Islam since I am not familiar with it).

Quote:

Whether or not they are approved by the religion that is used to commit them is somewhat beside the point. The point is that religion was used to commit them. The woo-woo elements of every religion are groundless from the perspective of any other religion, these woo-woo elements such as faith (believing without evidence or understanding), or promises of special treatment in an alleged afterlife are the dangerous bits. If religions merely concerned themselves with holding bake sales for habitat for humanity and not with advancing dangerous notions such as faith or afterlives, then religions could stand blameless.

No, it is not besides the point, it actually IS the point. Just because people use it as an excuse does not makes the religion used to commit the crimes bad. If I start to commit crimes in the name of atheism, killing all the religious wackos who think up dangerous things and live on faith would you aprove that what I am doing is a part of atheism or some atheist commandment? Of course not.

Sven · 08-16-2004, 02:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agnostic Beast

What do you want?

{quote=Some dude who nicked it off his dad's son's uncle's nephew's father's brother's neice's sister's brother's cousin's auntie's son}

:Cheeky:

Do you want me to cite a source for every joke I post?!

No. Just indicate which things were written by you and which were not.

Naked Ape · 08-16-2004, 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IAsimisI

The wackos who fly airplanes into buildings or kill doctors cross the line and stop being Christians(I can't speak for Islam since I am not familiar with it).

I think I understand why you feel that no true christian ever commits an atrocity, the people who do bad things in the name of christian dogma are automatically not christian. If this pattern holds true for all religions, then all atrocities are being committed by atheists, since doing bad things means you stop being a whatever-religionist. How convenient.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IAsimisI

No, it is not besides the point, it actually IS the point. Just because people use it as an excuse does not makes the religion used to commit the crimes bad. If I start to commit crimes in the name of atheism, killing all the religious wackos who think up dangerous things and live on faith would you aprove that what I am doing is a part of atheism or some atheist commandment? Of course not.

Perhaps this would fly if you could produce some official atheist dogma or perhaps quoted the atheist magic book out of context for support (what was that book's title again?). But wait, since atheism is simply the lack of belief in theistic concepts, there is no atheist dogma or magic book.

Maybe the solution is warning labels for all religious screeds, something like: WARNING - THE CONTENTS OF THIS BOOK ARE NOT TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY!, would that be OK?

While the bible is chock full of the things that are an abomination before the Lord, the only abomination before the Evil Atheist ConspiriacyTM is letting other people (like bronze age sheep herders for example) think for you.

God may indeed hate shrimp, but I think he's fictional and they are delicious no matter what the magic book says.

Cheers,

Naked Ape

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