Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Darth Dane · 11-25-2003, 05:48 AM

A man looked at creation and asked: Why God, why don't you do anything about the suffering and evil in this world?

God answered: I made you!

How are you using your time, to give pleasure to yourself or to alleviate pain and suffering?

Do you expect others to do what you are not willing to do yourself?

A man traversed land and sea to check for himself the Master's extraordinary fame.
"What miracles has your Master worked?" he said to a disciple.

"Well, there are miracles and miracles. In your land it is regarded as a miracle if God does someone's will. In our country it is regarded as a miracle if someone does the will of God."

epic · 11-25-2003, 08:01 AM

i don't have the power to stop famine by myself. god does*.

*if he existed

oh, and hey DD

Darth Dane · 11-25-2003, 08:10 AM

Hey epic

i don't have the power to stop famine by myself. god does

If god existed, how should god stop famine?

You may not have the power to stop all famine, but even the smallest effort is noticed.

A river is started by many small streams, if no streams would pour, where would the river be?

Sensei Meela · 11-25-2003, 10:56 AM

So, what's the difference (then) if no God existed at all? What's the difference between a world where God makes us do everything and a world with no God (say, as it appears now)?

Besides, no amount of human effort will stop hurricanes, earthquakes, floods, etc...In otherwords, as epic said, we do not have the power to eliminate 'evil'.

CoffeeFiend · 11-25-2003, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Darth Dane
A man looked at creation and asked: Why God, why don't you do anything about the suffering and evil in this world?

God answered: I made you!

How are you using your time, to give pleasure to yourself or to alleviate pain and suffering?

Are those activities exclusive ? I think not. I don't also believe that just giving stuff away is going to help anyone in the long run. The only way you can truly help people (or groups of people) is to teach them how they can make it on their own.

Quote:

Originally posted by Darth Dane
Do you expect others to do what you are not willing to do yourself?

Yes and No. Depends on the person, humanity is not a homogeneous mass.

Quote:

Originally posted by Darth Dane

A man traversed land and sea to check for himself the Master's extraordinary fame.
"What miracles has your Master worked?" he said to a disciple.

"Well, there are miracles and miracles. In your land it is regarded as a miracle if God does someone's will. In our country it is regarded as a miracle if someone does the will of God."

Aah... yes, the will of God. How do you know what is the will of God and what is not ? It's all fine in theory, but when one tries to actually figure it out and look at what goes on in the world, it seems that there is no coherent manifestation of the "will of God". The will of God for any given religious person just seems to be what "feels right" for them or what their scripture and/or leaders tell them.

Yahzi · 11-25-2003, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Darth Dane
If god existed, how should god stop famine?

Wouldn't he know?

I mean, I would just create a bunch of food. There are some problems with that, like distribution and making sure everybody gets the burger they ordered. But then, I'm merely mortal: surely your infinite god can come up with a much better method.

Are you suggesting that letting people starve is a better method? Or are you suggesting God is so stupid he can't figure out an answer? Or perhaps you are suggesting God is so weak he needs us to do it for him.

Your god isn't unbeleivable, just unbelievably pathetic.

King Rat · 11-25-2003, 12:54 PM

So, your god isn't the kind of god that, y'know does things...or says stuff...

DD you must be really easy to please.

livius drusus · 11-25-2003, 02:24 PM

I believe this is more of an EoG topic.

rainbow walking · 11-25-2003, 02:52 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Darth Dane
A man looked at creation and asked: Why God, why don't you do anything about the suffering and evil in this world?

God answered: I made you!

How are you using your time, to give pleasure to yourself or to alleviate pain and suffering?

Do you expect others to do what you are not willing to do yourself?

rw: Only problem is, your god promised to take care of everyone:

Matthew 6:25 _�Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?
26 _Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?
27 _Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?
28 _And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:
29 _And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
30 _Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?
31 _Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?

A man traversed land and sea to check for himself the Master's extraordinary fame.
"What miracles has your Master worked?" he said to a disciple.

"Well, there are miracles and miracles. In your land it is regarded as a miracle if God does someone's will. In our country it is regarded as a miracle if someone does the will of God."

rw: And thus god breaks his promises to man.

Infidelettante · 11-25-2003, 03:11 PM

I've learned a lot from IIDB the past year. One thing is that what you think is meaningless untill it is shared. Perhaps the most important is that in the end it is only what you do that has moral value. :notworthy Thanks DD.

JT

11-25-2003, 05:48 AM	#1
Darth Dane Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Required Posts: 2,349	PoE, Free will and Miracles A man looked at creation and asked: Why God, why don't you do anything about the suffering and evil in this world? God answered: I made you! How are you using your time, to give pleasure to yourself or to alleviate pain and suffering? Do you expect others to do what you are not willing to do yourself? A man traversed land and sea to check for himself the Master's extraordinary fame. "What miracles has your Master worked?" he said to a disciple. "Well, there are miracles and miracles. In your land it is regarded as a miracle if God does someone's will. In our country it is regarded as a miracle if someone does the will of God."

11-25-2003, 02:52 PM	#9
rainbow walking Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Erewhon Posts: 2,608	Re: PoE, Free will and Miracles [QUOTE]Originally posted by Darth Dane A man looked at creation and asked: Why God, why don't you do anything about the suffering and evil in this world? God answered: I made you! How are you using your time, to give pleasure to yourself or to alleviate pain and suffering? Do you expect others to do what you are not willing to do yourself? rw: Only problem is, your god promised to take care of everyone: Matthew 6:25 _�Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment? 26 _Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they? 27 _Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature? 28 _And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin: 29 _And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. 30 _Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith? 31 _Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed? A man traversed land and sea to check for himself the Master's extraordinary fame. "What miracles has your Master worked?" he said to a disciple. "Well, there are miracles and miracles. In your land it is regarded as a miracle if God does someone's will. In our country it is regarded as a miracle if someone does the will of God." rw: And thus god breaks his promises to man.

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11-25-2003, 08:01 AM	#2
epic Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Gold Coast, Australia Posts: 98	i don't have the power to stop famine by myself. god does. if he existed oh, and hey DD

11-25-2003, 08:10 AM	#3
Darth Dane Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Required Posts: 2,349	Hey epic i don't have the power to stop famine by myself. god does If god existed, how should god stop famine? You may not have the power to stop all famine, but even the smallest effort is noticed. A river is started by many small streams, if no streams would pour, where would the river be?

11-25-2003, 10:56 AM	#4
Sensei Meela Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: AZ, u.s.a. Posts: 1,202	So, what's the difference (then) if no God existed at all? What's the difference between a world where God makes us do everything and a world with no God (say, as it appears now)? Besides, no amount of human effort will stop hurricanes, earthquakes, floods, etc...In otherwords, as epic said, we do not have the power to eliminate 'evil'.

11-25-2003, 12:54 PM	#7
King Rat Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 6,855	So, your god isn't the kind of god that, y'know does things...or says stuff... DD you must be really easy to please.

11-25-2003, 02:24 PM	#8
livius drusus Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Selva Oscura Posts: 4,120	I believe this is more of an EoG topic.

11-25-2003, 03:11 PM	#10
Infidelettante Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: The Deep South Posts: 889	I've learned a lot from IIDB the past year. One thing is that what you think is meaningless untill it is shared. Perhaps the most important is that in the end it is only what you do that has moral value. :notworthy Thanks DD. JT

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