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Fenrir's Nemesis · 10-19-2007, 09:50 PM

[QUOTE=jgold6;4883208]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fenrir's Nemesis

There are many natural compulsions that should be curtailed if we are to advance to become a truly civilized society, IMHO. And that compulsion is certainly one of them. I do not feel compelled to exact vengeance upon those who do me wrong. I do however think it a good idea to as humanely as possible keep that person from wronging me or anyone else again. I guess vengeance is a compulsion that is not universal among men so it is erroneous for you to claim that it is and that it can't be denied.

And how does one "use the death penalty as a deterrent"? Public hangings in town squares, leaving the bodies to rot for a couple of days for maximum effect? Beheadings on the mayor's lawn? Community stonings perhaps? Is that what you are suggesting?

The methods you've described are fairly accurate descriptions of the use of capital punishment as a deterrent. I'm not suggesting that anything be done, but rather that public, immediate, and gory executions are what make the death penalty an effective deterrent.

The fact that many people have a compulsion toward vengeance cannot be denied, just as the fact that most animals have a natural inclination toward propagating their line. In many cases, these two compulsions are interconnected.

As for your comments regarding a truly "civilized" society, I assume you mean a truly docile and pacified society. Personally, I'd rather be a Morlock than an Eloi.

Fenrir's Nemesis · 10-19-2007, 09:53 PM

<edit>

Fenrir's Nemesis · 10-19-2007, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jgold6

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fenrir's Nemesis

Apparently, I'm being unclear. I understand that capital punishment is no longer a deterrent in the US. It is no longer used as such. Capital punishment CAN be used as a deterrent, however, if the executions are carried out in a more summary and immediate manner. It is for this reason that occupying authorities often use them as a method for pacifying their newly conquered populace.

Oh, so you propose swift execution after conviction, not allowing ample time for appeals, for new evidence to be examined, for possible mitigating cirumstances to be explored? Why don't we just put the gas chamber in the court room then? Great idea! "The jury says you're guilty ..... I sentence you to death .... bailiff, please don your black hood and escort this man to the gas chamber ...... next case!" I also think it's a [sarcasm]great idea[/sarcasm] to use tactics employed by conquering armies to control a populace in our everyday society.

At what point did I suggest that the government do anything? I explained that if the death penalty were to be used as a deterrent, that is how it would be carried out.

Fenrir's Nemesis · 10-19-2007, 09:58 PM

You two seem to be starved for entertainment, as you're righteously indignant about statements I have not made. Instead of reading my posts in their entirety, you seem to be reading snippets, and then flying off half-cocked in a furor over arguments that have only been made in your minds.

Blackbeard · 10-19-2007, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fenrir's Nemesis

The methods you've described are fairly accurate descriptions of the use of capital punishment as a deterrent. I'm not suggesting that anything be done, but rather that public, immediate, and gory executions are what make the death penalty an effective deterrent.

Well, you suggested that the death penalty should be used as a deterrent to make it effective. Then you said that "Yes, the things you mentioned would serve that purpose" so it seems to me you are suggesting swift public gory executions. Birlliant idea! It took millenia for some cultures, after much thoughtful and critical consideration, to end that barbaric practice and you seem to support it's more widespread return.

Quote:

The fact that many people have a compulsion toward vengeance cannot be denied,

I don't deny that. I merely pointed out that it is a compulsion that, if present, CAN be denied and that it is not universally present in the first place. Many humans do not even have the compulsion to procreate, and many who do have that compulsion, deny it. So what is your point? Mine is that many humans have risen above and/or outgrown their animal instincts and that to me, that is a sign of a civilized society.

Quote:

As for your comments regarding a truly "civilized" society, I assume you mean a truly docile and pacified society. Personally, I'd rather be a Morlock than an Eloi.

What about an Eloi in the absence of Morlocks? That sounds pretty nice to me actually. But it is a false dilemna anyway. Those are not the only two choices. One can be a pacifist yet still do what is necessary to protect himself and society from "Morlocks" without lowering himself to the Morlocks level.

windsofchange · 10-19-2007, 10:28 PM

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10-19-2007, 09:53 PM	#172
Fenrir's Nemesis Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Columbia, South Carolina Posts: 29	<edit>

10-19-2007, 09:58 PM	#174
Fenrir's Nemesis Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Columbia, South Carolina Posts: 29	You two seem to be starved for entertainment, as you're righteously indignant about statements I have not made. Instead of reading my posts in their entirety, you seem to be reading snippets, and then flying off half-cocked in a furor over arguments that have only been made in your minds.

10-19-2007, 10:28 PM	#176
windsofchange Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: The achingly beautiful San Fernando Valley Posts: 2,206	Closed for moderator review

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