Lógos Sokratikós

I am not anti-theist. I am anti-fundamentalism. Fundamentalism for me means putting your ideological agenda before compassion and other virtues. Cromwell was a fundamentalist. Torquemada also. But you know what? Stalin was too. He was so much into communism many times he went against the very people communism was designed to free.

I'm not against theism if theism is what "gets you through the night". If it is a consolation for when a loved one dies -great! I wish I believed in a candy-coated hereafter. When someone died when I was a theist, I was sad but satisfied that they were in some sort of hereafter and we would see each other again.

Last week, Saturday before dawn, my grandfather died (in pain before losing consciousness -i.e. the last thing he knew in this M-F@CKING world was excruciating pain). The pain I fell is terrible, for that and for the loss itself. I will never see him again. I wish I had visited my grandparents more often (when somebody dies you never feel that, however often it was, it's never often enough).

I am an atheist. I'm stuck here. At this horrid time I wish I could go back to my childhood safe place, but I cannot.

Atheism sucks. Reality bites and it is merciless.

We criticize the biblegod for being unmerciful even though he's hailed as merciful, but reality -Life itself included- is cold and wicked. There is nothing to absolve this universe and life is senseless.

Of all the people at my grandad's Mass, I was the only one crying inconsolably. I left church before the service began, because I didn't want to distract everyone with my little soap opera (I eventually came back but stood near the main entrance, still eyes watering, sometimes sobbing). At the burial I was crying like a child too. I tried to keep it in but I couldn't (and anyway, if ya don't cry at a funeral, then where?). That's just not me! I feel my atheism did not prepare me for this.

Pointing at Calvinism for it's emphasis on predestination? I'll tell you what's worse: this unfeeling atheistic universe is pure fate no one, not even the Calvinistic "elected", escape this relentless moira, this remorseless odious fate.

Atheism sucks. "Happy the theists, for them there will be consolation".

Deconverting people from theism doesn't look so dandy anymore, unless of course the person is obviously suffering because of it, like gay people still believing they'll go to hell. In other words, if someone is a "cafeteria catholic" (for instance), s/he has my blessing.

Lógos Sokratikós
Reluctant Atheist

phrog

Lógos, my condolences for your loss. You are so right. Atheism is no comfort for such a loss. Wouldn't it be nice if all the fairy tales were true. Well some of them anyway. There's an Atheist film from the Colorado Coalition of Reason where the speaker says if she had a magic wand and could wave it and rid the world of religion, she wouldn't do it as religion gives so many people needed support. Perhaps it's just a crutch, but some people need a crutch. I see myself breaking down in the blubbering tears like you describe when my father passes. Still, I'm glad you're with us. I like you just the way you are.

{{{Lógos Sokratikós}}}

nygreenguy

Wow, I had this very same epiphany the other day as well. Atheism DOES suck. I also remember watching my mother die in screaming agony from lung cancer (they took her pain meds away because of inability to pay), but i was ok with it because after she dies, i knew she was in a better place and I would see her again. Now, I realize she suffered for nothing and she is dead. I will never see her again. EVER.

And every time I see a homeless person I think about how terrible it must be because there is nothing great waiting for them when they die. The will die in their own filth, poor and alone. Atheism really wakes you up to what is going on, and as terrible as the truth is, I value life more. Now I give money to the guy not because I want god to think Im doing good deeds but because this guy is truly fucked. I dislike war even more now as well because I realize when those innocent people die, thats it. Done. They are gone forever. Its all just really so messed up.

Vicar Philip

I am sorry, too, Lógos. I felt similar pain when my grandfather passed away two years ago, on my birthday no less.

It does suck to not think "happy thoughts" for the loved one, as theism sometimes allows us to do. All we can do as atheists is enjoy this life we have, make good memories, and love one another.

You are in my thoughts.

VP

hasselhoff

I'm sorry for the loss and pain you're experiencing.

I agree that casual theism is, generally speaking, not worth getting worked up about. Regarding atheism, I can only say that there are probably as many different opinions and reactions to loss among atheists as there are among theists. My very Catholic sister was inconsolable after my grandmother's death, while I was sad but accepting. She was very old. It's always been my view that theism cheapens life with promises of eternity. I find more satisfaction in remembering the times I shared with a loved one that imagining a mystical afterlife for them.

In any case, you feel what you feel, and I hope I don't sound like I think you need to change. My thoughts are with you.

LoungeHead

Lógos Sokratikós:

I empathize with you. And condolences for your loss.

I agree, psychologically atheism sucks. I get tired of my endless rationalizing of an irrational world. While I appreciate the clarity of thought and perception I now have, I can also see the beauty in general reductionism characterised by absolute belief in religion and mysticism. The methodology of thought in trying to be as rational as I can, ultimately resides in a vacuum of irrationality. Sometimes it would be nice to just reduce all that irrational mind space to an absolute concept, just for day-to-day use. That is not to say I'd reject my atheism, that would be impossible, but rather just excuse meaningless occurances in the day as a consequence of the Dao or Allah, or some other simplistic and all encompassing universal entity that represents the irrational mind space from emotions to ideas. And with no dogma attached. (Sorry Christians, the utopian god-boy is just too an absurd a concept to accept as an idea.]

I agree, trying to deconvert is a worthless task. The only thing religious believers need to be pulled up on is when their dogma overrides their human relationships. Nothing frustrates me more than a person attributing negative characteristics to another because the person they dismiss eats from the big end of a boiled egg and not the small end.

mirage

Yep, the world sucketh mightily on occasion. You have my sincere sympathy. I'm not going to say anything in comfort or support, since I sucketh mightly at that.

Never mind, we'll all be dead before we know it, then we can have a nice sleep. That's the sort of thing I tend to come out with and I find it doesn't help much with patients or their relatives. I find it strangely comforting though. I'll stop now before I have another suicide on my conscience.

Screw the faith. No one took it away from you, you ditched it because it didn't work anyway. I agree, sometimes it would be easier to be in the world of the comfortably deluded. Not that much easier though.

Lógos Sokratikós

Atheism sucks. But US-type savage capitalism is ignominious. In Latin, 'ignominia' means it cannot be named: there is no adjective adequate to qualify this monstruous *thing*!

BolshyFaker

Atheism prepares you for everything and nothing because all it demands is that you follow the dictates of your own conscience with your eyes open to the sometimes painful reality that is life.

How you deal with loss is therefore entirely in your own hands, not in the false comfort of scriptures or the illusory promise of life everafter.

You were right to hold on to your grief and to express it - crying inconsolably is a right and natural reaction. Indeed as you observe in some ways your facing the true nature of the loss made this grief more acute, but it also brought home the strength of your love for your grandfather to you.

Eventually you may well feel like me that the best tribute to the dead is not to wish to see them again, but to work to make the world as they would have wanted, to take up the torch they have laid down, and run again.

My thoughts are with you.

JamesBannon

Christian, Muslim, Jew, Buddhist, Atheist, it doesn't matter as we all feel loss at the death of a loved one but mindless belief is no real comfort. What might be is when the anger and pain give way to fond remembrance as they eventually will.
This just leaves me speechless! The cold-hearted swine who did this deserves to be gutted.