aa5874

Well, when did Jesus come, according to Jews?

Toto

For the Jews, THE messiah has not yet come. Jesus was just another false pretender, one of many, too obscure to notice at the time if he existed, which they neither confirm nor deny.

Amaleq13

If only that meant you finally grasp the point rather than that you are simply going to ignore it to continue on your way like Mr. Magoo. :banghead:

Based on Justin's dialogue with Trypho, they appear to have accepted that Jesus was born when Christians claimed he was born. Their arguments focus on claims about his virgin birth and whether he could have been The Messiah.

More relevant and contrary to your assertion, they do not offer any argument that even suggests Jesus never existed.

aa5874

But, when did this Jesus come according to the Jews, the Jesus who was not the Messiah?

Christians, like Justin Martyr, claimed Jesus was the Christ or the Messiah, did the Jews agree with Justin that Jesus did indeed come?

Toto

aa5874: Is English your first language? What part of "neither confirm nor deny" confuses you?

The existence of Jesus is not an item of Jewish belief. You can find modern Jews taking every conceivable position on the existence or non-existence of Jesus. Ancient Jews appear to have accepted the existence of Jesus. Jews contemporary to when Jesus would have lived do not appear to have noticed him or his followers.

aa5874

Well, is English your first language?

Why did Justin Martyr try to show Trypho, the Jew, that Jesus who was called Christ, was born of a virgin as prophesied by Isaiah?

And why did Trypho call the virgin birth of Justin's Jesus, "Greek fables and a "monstrous phenomena".

Which ancient Jew accepted the existence of Jesus who Christians called the Christ?

Philo, Josephus, Trypho, who?

Toto

Yes.

Justin Martyr, and early Christians that we have record of, spent a lot of time trying to show that their Jesus was foretold in the Hebrew Scriptures, as properly interpreted through a Christian filter. That was the basis of their belief.

Trypho disagreed with Justin about whether Jesus was foretold in the Hebrew Scriptures.

Well evidently Trypho did, at least for the purposes of the argument, as did Celsus. They disagreed on the issue of whether this Jesus fulfilled any prophecies or was the Messiah. Does this mean that they rejected the existence of Jesus the Christ? Most people would say the answer is no.

aa5874

But, where did Trypho agree with Justin Martyr that Jesus, who was called Christ, was on earth during the reign of Tiberius?

And which ancient Jew accepted that Jesus whom the Christians called Christ was on earth during the time of Pilate?

English is your first language.

Amaleq13

Since we nowhere have any Jews denying that Jesus existed and you have demonstrated an inordinate fondness for arguments from silence, the answer is most certainly "Yes".

Or do you only accept arguments from silence when they support your beliefs?

Amaleq13

Every time he fails to challenge Justin's reference (5 times) to Jesus being crucified under Pilate, he is tacitly accepting the claim.

All of them given the complete absence of any argument against the notion and your clear acceptance of arguments from silence.