Kosh

I think the worst part is his statement:

"I have proven that Jesus did not exist....."

:banghead:

Fixer

Well, all he has to do to prove the existance of Christ is have the Italian Post Office send a few dozen bags of mail addressed to "Jesus Christ" to the court room.

Case dismissed.

Magnus Armstrong

Of course, Miracle on 34th Street was about an actual guy claiming to be Santa Claus. For that strategy to work, they would have to have a "Jesus Christ" in the courtroom.

Toto

Christianity Today's weblog headlines this as "Atheist Publicity Stunt Succeeds."

It wasn't clear to me before this that this is a criminal complaint. I can't imagine that a magistrate would indict a priest in a Catholic country for upholding church doctrine. But I don't know enough about how Italian law works in this regard.

Djugashvillain

I agree. Religion doesn't have a free card to be stupid. As Dawkins said, it's about time we stopped giving religion special treatment, stop excepting it from criticism, and exposed it for what it really is.

As for this court-case, it should certainly be an interesting one, and I will eagerly await a translation of the transcript; however, as some have already said, it will serve to fuel the persecution complex that is popular among Christians at the moment (regardless of a born-again being the most powerful man on Earth).

SLD

For purposes of the First Amendment and separation of church and state it is a religious belief. The government can no more endorse that there is no god than it can that there is a god.


My point is not that they shouldn't be challenged or debated but that lawsuits against them are not the forum and indeed the Christians would be right that this is religious oppression. The courts and government should not decide what is religious truth. If someone wants to believe and preach that the flying spaghetti monster has touched him with his noodly appendage - go for it! As James Madison said, no civil magistrate has any cognizance over such a claim.

Now that does not mean that religious beliefs, especially ridiculous ones like the existence of a crucified savior, need to be given a "free" pass. On the contrary. Challenge them all you want. Give 'em hell in the proper forum. I do it sometimes myself, both on these boards and in person.

But to involve the government in religious truth is utterly incompatible with the notion of a free society.

SLD

SLD

No doubt. But leave the government out of the picture. The same government that can say that Jesus is a myth and compel all to so state, also has the power to say that Jesus is not a myth and that he is the son of God and should be worshipped daily and that all who don't are not following the law.

Challenge them all you want. I do so myself quite often, but I do not need the help of any governmental power.

SLD

SLD

Yes, it does have a free ride to be stupid. That is the essence of living in a free society. You are free to believe in the FSM or the IPU or any other God of your choice - no matter how stupid. You are free to proselytize those beliefs to your hearts content (well some restrictions on time, place and manner and no harassment).

That does not mean that we also don't have the right to criticize it. I do as well and enjoy the debate. I agree wholeheartedly with Dawkins that we do not need to except it from criticism - heck our founding fathers sure as heck didn't. But they also knew where to draw the line - and the line is at the level of governmental involvement.

I agree it would be interesting, and as I said it will fuel the flames of the RR. Of course they love it. I can see Pat Robertson now - praying for god to strike a thunderbolt at the Italian courts and destroy their secular humanist institutions. The problem is that the money will just pour in to their coffers over this. Can you imagine Jerry Falwell's donation requests over this? I bet $$50 the dickwad will leave out that the court fight took place in Italy, thus implying that it was here in the U.S! Sheesh.

SLD

mga

This and several following posts were previously an independent thread that have been merged with this one.

i just caught the tail end of it on CNN....some guy, an atheist, is taking a priest to court and suing him. in the suit he's asking to prove that jesus did, if ever, really exist.

the priest commented: "i don't know why he's picking on me"

more details as i get them......sorry, i don't have a link yet.

Toto

There's an ongoing thread in BCH: Here

(and probably a few more threads).