SeekingKnowledge

I like this, can I quote it elsewhere?

EVERYBODY MUST GET STONED! LOL


On a more serious note, I share the sentiment that a literal translation of ancient passages and texts is a dangerous double edged sword.. Many positive effects, and also many horrible effects. The "whole thing" spawns fervant beliefs from both sides.. from The Bible Code or the Rapture believers to the scornful dejected (or enlightened and hopeful?) skeptics and fringe cultists of other religions..

They all have their reasoning (some more sound than others), but what's the ultimate point?

To find a way to make it a simple reason for people to be good. Something that is easy to understand. Jesus does provide some of those teachings. So do allot of other wise men and the people that learned from them.

The truth is there is not east path. Not "Trust in Jesus/God/Buddha alone and if you don't understand it you weren't meant to".. Sugarhitman will tell you otherwise, in a sly sales pitch kinda way.. But don't be swayed the opposite direction on principle either. Quit taking the easy way out and work for it..

Did I derail enough? Ok, I digress..

Stoning people to Death: it isn't right, man.

sugarhitman

Face it people hate Jesus for what he represents....Holiness. This is why Jesus in popular culture is ridiculed and seen as soft and weak. People reject Jesus because they love their sinful ways....end of story.

rizdek

While that is a recognized maxim, "punish evil," it is really meaningless. One cannot punish a behavior. Is sin a "thing" that can be punished? Not any more than a crime can be punished. It sounds good, but when analyzed, it doesn't make sense. The only things that can be punished are conscious, feeling things that can sense pain or discomfort...e.g. humans. Humans can be punished FOR commiting sins.

But that's where christianity breaks down. Because christianity has people quoting things like "sin must be punished," it sounds all just and fair. But really, according to christianity, only people who don't accept the "gift" of salvation will supposedly be punished. Jesus died for our sins. Everyones sins. They are all "covered" by the blood, so to speak. It is only in the rejection of that gift that people warrant and will receive eternal punishment, again, according to christianity. That is and was the christian god's plan from the beginning. Before creating humans, god planned for man to sin and that he would redeem said sinful man by punishing...who, himself, when it comes right down to it. He defines sin, makes up the punishment for sin, and then decides that if he, in the form of the human jesus, receives that punishment, all human's sins are forgiven.

Now comes the rub. It isn't just the little "offenses against god" such as disbelief, coveting, lust and hate that are supposedly covered by this sacrifice, but heinous, hurtful deeds against fellow humans. Sometime deeds against multitudes of humans. These are also supposedly "covered" by the blood shed by jesus' sacrifice. So, without a "by your leave" from the wronged party(ies) a person can be forgiven and in fact NOT BE PUNISHED because of the odd wording of your phrase, SINS must be punished and the unspoken after thought, but not necessarily humans who commit sins as long as they intone the right words, believe the right things and think the right thoughts.

So your god, if you are a christian, has an odd sense of justice where as long as someone somewhere suffers the arbitrary punishment for sin, i.e. death in a torturous way, it is fine, and sinning people can be exonerated and even rewarded eternally even though they never sought nor received forgiveness from the real injured party, and never made reparations for the damage they did.

I'm not saying people who consider themselves to have become christians never do seek forgiveness from the people they hurt, it's just not necessary according to the bible. According to the bible, one need not seek forgiveness nor pay reparations for harm and damages to be "forgiven."

sugarhitman

What is sin? most sin committed is against other people like, murder, hatred, deceiving, verbal physical abuse, adultery etc. and what person is not guilty of sin? You and I are guilty of sinning against someone else as well as everyone else which is why God says forgive everyone who sins against you even if they don't ask for it. And why do humans have to be forgiven by other humans to be forgiven by God? All sin, all have hurt someone else, to say a human shouldn't be forgiven because another has not forgiven them is hypocrisy plain and simple thus noone should be saved.....that belongs to God.

SeekingKnowledge

Obviously not the end of the story, I still don't understand. Maybe it's my classification on what a Christian considers "holiness" and "Sin".. For example:
I know someone who is a wholesome person, but is a non-practicing Wiccan (raised by wiccans but doesn't rake the religion as seriously as he does the reality he lives in).. My christian studies would tell me (as well as most pastors and presumably you) that he is sinning in not believing that "Jesus was an incarnated portion of God, the Creator of all, and the only way to the father (God and Heaven) is through the Son (Jesus, and his teachings). I feel the same way as he does (though I am not a Wiccan) and I do not think it is a sin. I feel that if there is a God, I am always as close to him as I will ever be, just as the river is always as close to it's source as it will ever be. A river cannot deny it's existance, and neither can I. I don't need Jesus to connect to God at all, but his teachings don't hurt (unless they get mistranslated and confused and taken too literally or lightly, in which instance you see the effects all around you)

I don't reject Jesus. I reject that he was imbibed with a special magic, that he performed realmiracles inspired by a Divine Deity in "Heaven" that passes down judgments and hands out "free will" as he sees fit, and I reject that JJesus was more the "son of God" than you or I are.

So what do you make of it? How am I a sinner? If I die and the St Peter is standing there, how can he keep me from entering? And why in the world would I want to go to there?

WVIncagold

Can't hate what you know never existed. do you hate the king of the leprachauns? And what is Holiness? Is that what happens when you preach so much then take a drink and all the wine (or is it blood) poors out the hole in your side hands and feet?:constern01: People reject your memeJesus because its nonsense. It has nothing to do with sin. People just have a hard time swallowing a bronze age zombie who can fly actually existed.

By the way can you name the sins so we can look out for them? Like eating shellfish, and wearing clothes of diffrent fabric? those nice sins that Xians seam to ignore all the time? How about not keeping the Sabath Holy? Not only do you xians not keep it holy you celbrate it on the WRONG day! OOPs guess all you self righteous Xians are bound for hell with all us simple atheist.

sugarhitman

Who is Jesus but the Word of God, and if you reject The Word are you not rejecting he who spoke? If you don't reject Jesus, but reject the Word then you reject both. There is no such thing as accepting Jesus, and rejecting him at the same time.

Lógos Sokratikós

Ahem... Consequence regulation is behavior control. See: Applied behavior analysis.

Now isn't that ironic.

Lógos Sokratikós

That is absolutely true in all logic. Given, of course that you have already ascertained the truth value of your premises, which is, alas, Christian apologists' ever-yet to be completed task, those of us who don't believe but who nevertheless are tormented by their incessant slogans are still waiting thousands of years for.

sugarhitman

Don't be impatient....its sure to come.